Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

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Indy
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Indy »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:25 am
Indy wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:24 am
I agree with you. If you aren't Black, don't say it. It isn't hard.
It shouldn’t be said at all. Black or white.
I don't presume to tell Black people how they should handle that word. It was used to incite violence and hatred and fear and murder for hundreds of years. If they want to reclaim it, that is their personal choice. Not ours.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by AmareIsGod »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.

This feels like I'm having a conversation with my 67-year-old white dad. He makes these kinds of arguments all the time. How hard is it to make your own set of appropriate standards on how to use certain words when addressing people? Why do we have to look a collective subset of people that use certain language to steer our own moral compass? YOU should know something isn't right and not lean on the mistakes of others as a way to justify or deter your own choices.
Last edited by AmareIsGod on Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Indy »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Let's take this into the politics folder because we aren't going to resolve it here. Because you seem to think it is OK to tell Black people what they are allowed to say.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

Indy wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:34 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Let's take this into the politics folder because we aren't going to resolve it here. Because you seem to think it is OK to tell Black people what they are allowed to say.
I actually find it offensive when they use it. When anybody uses it, but that doesn’t matter since I’m white. Is that what you’re saying?

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by AmareIsGod »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:37 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
Not even close AIG. Read my last post.

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Indy
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Indy »

Yeah we all got off track. Sarver saying it once or 1000 times is bad. Saying it at work is an offense worth termination in any company I have worked at in my life.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by AmareIsGod »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:39 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:37 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:22 am
Instead of worrying so much about how the statement was made, why don’t you just respond to it?
Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
Not even close AIG. Read my last post.
I actually find it offensive when they use it. When anybody uses it, but that doesn’t matter since I’m white. Is that what you’re saying?

That was your last post. You find it offensive when anyone uses it, which includes Robert Sarver. Your opinion matters as a person, not as a white male. The human response of it not being okay is the correct one. I do think though that in the context of its use in certain situations for black people, as a non-black person, we have no right to tell a black person that it should be completely banished from their vocabulary because it's being banished from non-black people's vocabulary.

Here's a great read that does a much better job of having a conversation around this than I ever could:
https://www.learningforjustice.org/maga ... -the-nword
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:44 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:39 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:37 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:28 am


Why? You know his response, along with any rational human. It is a word that shouldn't be used by anyone, just like many words that we've started to eliminate as they are vulgar, hateful and unnecessary. The way I'm reading your point is this: "If the word is so bad or wrong, it shouldn't be okay for black people to use it either. It shouldn't just be non-black people that stop using it". I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in the grand scheme of things. Just because black people, in some circles but definitely not the majority, use the "n-word", doesn't mean we're giving them a free pass and harping on Robert Sarver. Robert Sarver is being obtuse and moronic in thinking that "if Draymond Green and other black people use it, why can't I?". And that's just a bullshit set of reasoning.
Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
Not even close AIG. Read my last post.
I actually find it offensive when they use it. When anybody uses it, but that doesn’t matter since I’m white. Is that what you’re saying?

That was your last post. You find it offensive when anyone uses it, which includes Robert Sarver. Your opinion matters as a person, not as a white male. The human response of it not being okay is the correct one. I do think though that in the context of its use in certain situations for black people, as a non-black person, we have no right to tell a black person that it should be completely banished from their vocabulary because it's being banished from non-black people's vocabulary.

Here's a great read that does a much better job of having a conversation around this than I ever could:
https://www.learningforjustice.org/maga ... -the-nword
Interesting read.

Just to be clear, I never said it was okay that Sarver used it.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by AmareIsGod »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:44 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:39 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:37 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:32 am


Indy made my point. He thinks it’s okay if they use it, but not us. And I strongly disagree. It needs to just go away.
Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
Not even close AIG. Read my last post.
I actually find it offensive when they use it. When anybody uses it, but that doesn’t matter since I’m white. Is that what you’re saying?

That was your last post. You find it offensive when anyone uses it, which includes Robert Sarver. Your opinion matters as a person, not as a white male. The human response of it not being okay is the correct one. I do think though that in the context of its use in certain situations for black people, as a non-black person, we have no right to tell a black person that it should be completely banished from their vocabulary because it's being banished from non-black people's vocabulary.

Here's a great read that does a much better job of having a conversation around this than I ever could:
https://www.learningforjustice.org/maga ... -the-nword
Interesting read.

Just to be clear, I never said it was okay that Sarver used it.
I know. I feel like I put words in your mouth. Definitely not cool of me. I got sideways when responding and totally understand where you're coming from. Apologies SunsRIt!
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Split T »

To me, sure it would be great if everyone stopped using the n-word, but as a white person it’s not my place to tell black people how to use it. I also don’t feel like it’s my place to even worry about their use of it. If you’re not black, don’t use the n-word under any circumstance. I think that’s a pretty easy and straightforward rule. Makes it very simple.
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:59 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:44 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:39 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:37 am


Okay. But it won't just go away. In the meantime, let's be adults and understand that it isn't appropriate to use it and not use it. The use of the word has diminished dramatically, even in black circles. I think logical people can make the conclusion that it's not an okay word to use. This entire argument is missing the point though. We're talking about Robert Sarver using the term on a multiple time basis around people that have heard him use it. I'm not sure where your point is going other than giving a semblance of excuse towards his use of it.
Not even close AIG. Read my last post.
I actually find it offensive when they use it. When anybody uses it, but that doesn’t matter since I’m white. Is that what you’re saying?

That was your last post. You find it offensive when anyone uses it, which includes Robert Sarver. Your opinion matters as a person, not as a white male. The human response of it not being okay is the correct one. I do think though that in the context of its use in certain situations for black people, as a non-black person, we have no right to tell a black person that it should be completely banished from their vocabulary because it's being banished from non-black people's vocabulary.

Here's a great read that does a much better job of having a conversation around this than I ever could:
https://www.learningforjustice.org/maga ... -the-nword
Interesting read.

Just to be clear, I never said it was okay that Sarver used it.
I know. I feel like I put words in your mouth. Definitely not cool of me. I got sideways when responding and totally understand where you're coming from. Apologies SunsRIt!
Thanks AIG. It’s all good.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Mori Chu »

I just don't get why some white folks want to fight for their right to say the N-word. "Black people sometimes say it! Why can't I say it?" Why are you so eager to say it? Does it give you jollies to say the N-word for some reason? Why is saying the N-word some kind of essential freedom that you feel you are being denied?

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by SunsRIt »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:54 am
I just don't get why some white folks want to fight for their right to say the N-word. "Black people sometimes say it! Why can't I say it?" Why are you so eager to say it? Does it give you jollies to say the N-word for some reason? Why is saying the N-word some kind of essential freedom that you feel you are being denied?
Who said that? I said I don’t think ANYBODY should say it.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:12 am
To me, sure it would be great if everyone stopped using the n-word, but as a white person it’s not my place to tell black people how to use it. I also don’t feel like it’s my place to even worry about their use of it. If you’re not black, don’t use the n-word under any circumstance. I think that’s a pretty easy and straightforward rule. Makes it very simple.
Agreed. Mori posted an article where I really appreciate this black man's opinion on the use of the word:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ations-nba

Very well stated and he's on the banish the word from everybody's vocabulary bandwagon. However, it's still not my place to tell black people not to use it.
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Superbone »

There's an article on the Heckmann roast in today's AZ Republic:

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 34_1345fcb

Also an article from various past Suns' personnel who are surprised by the accusations:

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 29_1345fcc

This includes Babby, Gentry, John Shumate and wife, and PJ Tucker who was surprisingly close to Sarver.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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JeremyG
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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by JeremyG »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:12 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:54 am
I just don't get why some white folks want to fight for their right to say the N-word. "Black people sometimes say it! Why can't I say it?" Why are you so eager to say it? Does it give you jollies to say the N-word for some reason? Why is saying the N-word some kind of essential freedom that you feel you are being denied?
Who said that? I said I don’t think ANYBODY should say it.
Not you. Sarver said that, according to Watson.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by JeremyG »

Kent Somers agrees with me that the receptionist comment is misogynistic: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 395507001/
That’s what pops into his head, even at a bawdy roast? A misogynistic joke about a receptionist and breast size?

It made me think, though. I think that after the NBA’s investigation, Sarver’s dash as Suns owner will look something like this: 2004-22.

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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

Post by Nodack »

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:38 pm
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/11/10/suns- ... okes-video

Wendy Heckmann: "Robert is a really good person and I’ve never heard him say anything derogatory or anything with any kind of racial flair or any kind of sexist flair or anything—he’s never done that in my presence."

Robert Sarver in her presence: "I’m gonna guess his receptionist has small tits."
If Robert Sarver wrote or said what you just wrote, people here would be using that as further proof of his misogyny and a reason to take the team away from him.

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