Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

Ya I’m pretty out of touch with anything before kJ/Barkley so you can’t trust anything I say about players before then, haha
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by LazarusLong »

I'm older than dirt, so I'm out of touch with most of the world ... :lol:
Forget about Sarver--keep your eyes on the prize.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

1 - Barkley Nash
2 - K. Johnson, Westphal, Hawkins, Kidd
3 - Stoudemire, Marion, Booker, Paul, Chambers, Davis, D. Johnson
4 - D. Van Arsdale, Goodrich, Hornacek, Majerle, Adams, C. Scott, Nance, Silas, T. Robinson, Lucas, J. Johnson, Marbury

I'm undoubtedly leaving somebody out.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by LazarusLong »

I like that you put Hawkins in the second tier.
Most latter day Suns fans don't realize what an impact The Hawk had on the franchise.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

1 - MVP level
2 - All-NBA perennials
3 - All-Star perennials
4 - Borderline All-Stars

Hawkins was clearly one of the best players in the NBA his first couple of years until the miles caught up with him.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Superbone »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:00 pm
1 - MVP level
2 - All-NBA perennials
3 - All-Star perennials
4 - Borderline All-Stars

Hawkins was clearly one of the best players in the NBA his first couple of years until the miles caught up with him.
And that started after his prime.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

If I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -

Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

Yes, Connie Hawkins, forgot about him. Too young to have ever seen him play. Funny story though, he was the first suns player I ever met. He was at my elementary school for some reason, I was like 7 or 8 and he signed my t-shirt. I had no clue who he was at the time and am saddened to say that I have no clue what happened to that shirt. That would have been a cool thing to have.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:30 pm
Yes, Connie Hawkins, forgot about him. Too young to have ever seen him play. Funny story though, he was the first suns player I ever met. He was at my elementary school for some reason, I was like 7 or 8 and he signed my t-shirt. I had no clue who he was at the time and am saddened to say that I have no clue what happened to that shirt. That would have been a cool thing to have.
Don't worry. He's before my time too as I don't recall watching him play. Although, I did read Foul! The Connie Hawkins Story as a kid.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

The Hawk was even before my time!
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Indy »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:14 pm
If I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -

Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
I took out the guys before my time, and did my ranking the same way you did (judging 'best' as their best full season with us). I was really surprised to see where Booker landed, because I think he has the capacity to be the best Sun ever, or at least top 3.


Barkley
Nash
Paul
K. Johnson
Stoudemire
Marion
Booker
Kidd
Chambers

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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Superbone »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:57 pm
The Hawk was even before my time!
I'm pretty sure your time is the same as my time. :D (Within months even.)
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:07 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:57 pm
The Hawk was even before my time!
I'm pretty sure your time is the same as my time. :D (Within months even.)
Most likely. I took notice during the 1975-76 playoffs, but I really didn't start watching intently until the 1977-78 season. Didn't actually attend a game until 1979 when I got my driver's license.

My most vivid memory of those early years is always going to the end of the concourse (where it narrowed at each end of the Coliseum) where they would have tables set up with merchandise. I remember getting my first NBA Guide there (the 1980-81 edition).

We also used to make trips to the Suns' offices on Central to visit the "team shop" there and get things like posters and shirts.

We used to "Ooooooh" and "Ahhhhh" over Jerry Colangelo's Jag parked in the parking lot.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

Indy wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:57 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:14 pm
If I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -

Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
I took out the guys before my time, and did my ranking the same way you did (judging 'best' as their best full season with us). I was really surprised to see where Booker landed, because I think he has the capacity to be the best Sun ever, or at least top 3.


Barkley
Nash
Paul
K. Johnson
Stoudemire
Marion
Booker
Kidd
Chambers
Not sure I’d change a thing. Probably leave Chambers off as his best years were before my time. Stoudemire/KJ/Paul trio is hard to rank. All seem to be pretty even. I think I agree with Paul as first among them as he was more crucial to his team than the others were to theirs.

Think I’d put Amare over KJ though. Just barely. That level he reached in the 05 playoffs before his knee surgeries was insane. JJ is the obvious big what if from back then, but what if Amare never had knee problems? He was on a potential mvp path. He was like a 22 year old 3rd year player matching prime Duncan in the playoffs.

He averaged 30 and 11 with 2 blocks on .619 TS and averaged over 12 fta per game that postseason. Against SA he was 37/10 and shot 55% from the field. He was such a special athlete.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

Let's not forget that for his first four years here, KJ averaged 21.2 points, 11.1 assists, shot 50% from the field and 84% from the line, was All-NBA 2nd Team 3 times and All- NBA 3rd Team 1 time.

And the Suns won 55, 54, 55 and 53 games those seasons with the ball in his hands the majority of the time.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

Yes I was strictly talking on an at their peak basis…not talking careers. For careers, I think my teams go:

1st Team
G: Nash and KJ
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare

2nd Team
G: Westphal and Booker
F: Davis and Hawkins
C: Adams

3rd Team
G: Kidd and CP3
F: Chambers and Nance
C: Ayton

Booker will take KJ’s spot at some point on the 1st team and Paul will probably take Westphal’s spot on the 2nd team. Ayton will also probably move up to 2nd team soon if he stays around. Bridges will make these lists if he at least finishes out his next contract here. Got 2nd team potential as well.

So one day it’ll look like this:

1st Team
G: Nash and Booker
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare

2nd Team
G: CP3 and KJ
F: Davis and Bridges
C: Ayton

3rd Team
G: Westphal and Kidd
F: Hawkins and Chambers
C: Adams or Nance
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by The Bobster »

Booker doesn't have the resume yet though. He hasn't been named All-NBA yet and has been an injury replacement All-Star twice. So I'm not saying he's going to finish ahead of KJ, Westphal, Kidd or Davis at this point.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

Side note: Is any other franchise as loaded at guard as we are? Specifically pg? If you got specific with positions, we’d have Jason Kidd as our 4th string pg in franchise history. Then you still have Marbury, Dragic, IT, Rubio. I might do some research and be back with an interesting (at least to me 😂) post.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by Split T »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:46 pm
Booker doesn't have the resume yet though. He hasn't been named All-NBA yet and has been an injury replacement All-Star twice. So I'm not saying he's going to finish ahead of KJ, Westphal, Kidd or Davis at this point.
Fair, I think those will come, he’s only played on one good suns team and those awards go to players on good teams. I’m also expecting a very long Suns career for him. I fully expect him to be the all time scoring leader in suns history when it’s all said and done. He’s already 8th and will pass Nash and Amare this year. I won’t say he finishes 1st all time in assists, but that’s within reach as well if he’s here long enough. He’ll for sure be the 3 point leader all time, but that’s mostly a product of era. Outside shot at being the career ppg leader. He’s currently 3rd.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021

Post by LazarusLong »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:47 pm
Side note: Is any other franchise as loaded at guard as we are? Specifically pg? If you got specific with positions, we’d have Jason Kidd as our 4th string pg in franchise history. Then you still have Marbury, Dragic, IT, Rubio. I might do some research and be back with an interesting (at least to me 😂) post.
... and then there are Gail Goodrich and Charlie Scott, both of whom won titles after leaving the Suns.
Forget about Sarver--keep your eyes on the prize.

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