Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2496
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by pickle »

In terms of finding minutes for a new guy, I really wouldn’t mind bumping everyone down one position and shaving their minutes some. Have Cam J play some minutes at the 3 and Mikal at the 2. The only hole we still have is at the 1 as CP15 isn’t always reliable to spell CP3 for 20 mpg.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 14890
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Split T »

Point Book?
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Harrison Barnes, PJ Washington, Kenrich Williams, Torrey Craig

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 8383
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by In2ition »

Split T wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:34 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:19 am
For a team that desperately needs help on the boards from a position other than Center, it make sense to get a guy like Thad Young. I actually would hate to lose a guy like Saric, who I know can play both Center and PF next to a true Center. Thad though does provide a boost with his passing and defense. Stix is a better rebounder, shot blocker, and 12 yrs younger, but doesn't provide everything else that Thad does.
I just don’t really see Saric playing this year. Even if he does come back, I think it’ll take some time to get him into game shape. If I knew Saric was coming back and would be healthy by playoff time, I wouldn’t bother trading for Thad
You could be right. It was an injury in June, so you would think 12 months is expected. There was speculation from his father that he could be back before the playoffs, but who knows for sure.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
ブランドンに行こう

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 23625
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Superbone »

"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 14074
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Mori Chu »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 am
"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
He's been really good for the past ... week or so. Reminds me a bit of Kaminsky's powerful start to the season before his tragic injury.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 14074
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Mori Chu »

pickle wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:19 am
The assumption being that Saric would not lose any of his already limited athleticism if we expect him to play the 4 next to Ayton or McGee tho.

I salivate at Barnes (potentially gettable?), Slomo (can’t see Memphis breaking up a good thing), and like the idea of Olynyk (no mention of him in rumors but Detroit has to be willing to move him right?). I’d love to get Grant but he’s out of our price range and throws a monkey wrench into our rotations. Cooled off significantly on Wood. Still have some interest in Theis but dunno how he holds up guarding 4s.
I like most of those guys, but not Theis. He's having a bit of a down year, averaging only 8.7 ppg and 5.1 rpg in 23 min/gm. Jerami Grant is a pipedream and wouldn't fit in our cap structure. I like Wood a lot but I think we have the 5 locked down pretty well with Ayton and McGee.

I worry about our guard rotation. Shamet is totally inconsistent, unless you want to say that he's consistently bad. Payne is a nice bench guard but doesn't usually get others involved enough (though props to him for getting several assists in this OKC game). And Payton has been a borderline nightmare. I worry that we're going to face a CP3 injury or a Booker hamstring flareup in the next few weeks/months and will be extremely thin at guard because of it. I wish we had one more guard we could trust, even somebody mediocre like a Jevon Carter or Etwaun Moore.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 6666
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:40 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 am
"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
He's been really good for the past ... week or so. Reminds me a bit of Kaminsky's powerful start to the season before his tragic injury.
He's received the most minutes of his career in the past two games. The numbers aren't bad and he's certainly looked more comfortable against OKC's G League team than he did against Steven Adams. I think I even saw him crack a smile during the last game.

As being discussed, this roster needs an alternative to McGee at the backup Center position for matchup purposes. Peak Frank would suffice, but his lack of athleticism will always be a problem on the defensive end. Jalen fits the mold in several ways but he needs to build confidence by playing real minutes during the season. I hope he's not immediately banished back to the bench once Ayton and Crowder return.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 23625
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Superbone »

Is it a given we're losing Jalen like you guys are saying? Just because we didn't pick up his option, aren't their still scenarios where we could keep him if he/we wanted? I assume it's different than Ayton where we have the right to match any offer but can't we we resign him if we were to come to a mutual agreement and he wanted to be here and we wanted him here?
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 8383
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by In2ition »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:18 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:40 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 am
"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
He's been really good for the past ... week or so. Reminds me a bit of Kaminsky's powerful start to the season before his tragic injury.
He's received the most minutes of his career in the past two games. The numbers aren't bad and he's certainly looked more comfortable against OKC's G League team than he did against Steven Adams. I think I even saw him crack a smile during the last game.

As being discussed, this roster needs an alternative to McGee at the backup Center position for matchup purposes. Peak Frank would suffice, but his lack of athleticism will always be a problem on the defensive end. Jalen fits the mold in several ways but he needs to build confidence by playing real minutes during the season. I hope he's not immediately banished back to the bench once Ayton and Crowder return.
Unless he can play PF, I just don't see him getting more than spot minutes here and there when Ayton is back with McGee.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
ブランドンに行こう

User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 5325
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by The Bobster »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:30 pm
Is it a given we're losing Jalen like you guys are saying? Just because we didn't pick up his option, aren't their still scenarios where we could keep him if he/we wanted? I assume it's different than Ayton where we have the right to match any offer but can't we we resign him if we were to come to a mutual agreement and he wanted to be here and we wanted him here?
They can use one of their available exceptions, but there's a limit on what they can spend. I don't see him demanding more than that on an open market, so it's not a big concern.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 5325
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by The Bobster »

In2ition wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:18 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:40 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 am
"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
He's been really good for the past ... week or so. Reminds me a bit of Kaminsky's powerful start to the season before his tragic injury.
He's received the most minutes of his career in the past two games. The numbers aren't bad and he's certainly looked more comfortable against OKC's G League team than he did against Steven Adams. I think I even saw him crack a smile during the last game.

As being discussed, this roster needs an alternative to McGee at the backup Center position for matchup purposes. Peak Frank would suffice, but his lack of athleticism will always be a problem on the defensive end. Jalen fits the mold in several ways but he needs to build confidence by playing real minutes during the season. I hope he's not immediately banished back to the bench once Ayton and Crowder return.
Unless he can play PF, I just don't see him getting more than spot minutes here and there when Ayton is back with McGee.
I think the most reasonable scenario is that he builds up a little trade value while playing center and they have some teams interested in trading for him since he's on a cheap and expiring contract.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 14890
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Split T »

Ya I think Jalen is almost definitely getting moved. Might just be in a swap for someone like Torrey Craig.
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Harrison Barnes, PJ Washington, Kenrich Williams, Torrey Craig

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 8383
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by In2ition »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:19 pm
In2ition wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:18 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:40 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 am
"He blocked that with his elbow!" -EJ

Congrats to Stix. Probably his best game as a Sun.
He's been really good for the past ... week or so. Reminds me a bit of Kaminsky's powerful start to the season before his tragic injury.
He's received the most minutes of his career in the past two games. The numbers aren't bad and he's certainly looked more comfortable against OKC's G League team than he did against Steven Adams. I think I even saw him crack a smile during the last game.

As being discussed, this roster needs an alternative to McGee at the backup Center position for matchup purposes. Peak Frank would suffice, but his lack of athleticism will always be a problem on the defensive end. Jalen fits the mold in several ways but he needs to build confidence by playing real minutes during the season. I hope he's not immediately banished back to the bench once Ayton and Crowder return.
Unless he can play PF, I just don't see him getting more than spot minutes here and there when Ayton is back with McGee.
I think the most reasonable scenario is that he builds up a little trade value while playing center and they have some teams interested in trading for him since he's on a cheap and expiring contract.
I can't say that I disagree with you. Seems inevitable.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
ブランドンに行こう

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2496
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by pickle »

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:43 pm
pickle wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:19 am
The assumption being that Saric would not lose any of his already limited athleticism if we expect him to play the 4 next to Ayton or McGee tho.

I salivate at Barnes (potentially gettable?), Slomo (can’t see Memphis breaking up a good thing), and like the idea of Olynyk (no mention of him in rumors but Detroit has to be willing to move him right?). I’d love to get Grant but he’s out of our price range and throws a monkey wrench into our rotations. Cooled off significantly on Wood. Still have some interest in Theis but dunno how he holds up guarding 4s.
I like most of those guys, but not Theis. He's having a bit of a down year, averaging only 8.7 ppg and 5.1 rpg in 23 min/gm. Jerami Grant is a pipedream and wouldn't fit in our cap structure. I like Wood a lot but I think we have the 5 locked down pretty well with Ayton and McGee.

I worry about our guard rotation. Shamet is totally inconsistent, unless you want to say that he's consistently bad. Payne is a nice bench guard but doesn't usually get others involved enough (though props to him for getting several assists in this OKC game). And Payton has been a borderline nightmare. I worry that we're going to face a CP3 injury or a Booker hamstring flareup in the next few weeks/months and will be extremely thin at guard because of it. I wish we had one more guard we could trust, even somebody mediocre like a Jevon Carter or Etwaun Moore.
I don’t remember why I didn’t mention Nance but he’s obviously high on that list. As for Theis, it’s hard to judge what shape he’s in given the volatility of the Houston rotation. He isn’t a world beater or anywhere near a top 3 option so he needs a good team around him to be effective. Plus he’s 6’8 so he isn’t going to put up incredible rebounds or blocks tho he’s quite an effective weak side shot blocker. Also a confident three point shooter with useful volume in his previous stint as Boston’s starter. I just haven’t watched him enough when matched up against modern 4s to know whether he could play alongside our current bigs to improve rebounding.

I get your frustration with Shamet, and I too am a little worried with the regression from both CPs as mentioned earlier. But I really think you might be remembering Carter and Moore in a favorable light. Moore was only good once every 5 games if that, and he offered very little besides scoring, whereas Carter was strictly a 2 guard who plays hard but is way undersized to defend actual 2 guards. This version of Shamet is still better than those guys. What we really need is a guy like Rondo from 3 years ago, instead of Payton as the 3rd string. But I wouldn’t move Shamet. Even when he’s missing shots he still has the gravity of a shooter when he’s on the court, and he did a decent job stepping in for Book.

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2496
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by pickle »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:30 pm
Is it a given we're losing Jalen like you guys are saying? Just because we didn't pick up his option, aren't their still scenarios where we could keep him if he/we wanted? I assume it's different than Ayton where we have the right to match any offer but can't we we resign him if we were to come to a mutual agreement and he wanted to be here and we wanted him here?
I’m also holding out hope that we sign him to a contract at a slightly above minimum rate; say a 3 year deal at 2-3 per with a third year player option. There’s value to be had in that young man and I’d hate to see it walk away for nothing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5656
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Nodack »

I feel bad for Stix. He never really got a chance to play and it appeared that the Suns had little interest in keeping him. He didn’t get any meaningful minutes until recently and he has looked pretty good to me. I am glad he is getting a chance. Them trying to make him a forward instead of a center seems a little like forcing a square into a round hole. Glad he is getting a chance to play center and is holding his own.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 23625
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Superbone »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:10 am
I feel bad for Stix. He never really got a chance to play and it appeared that the Suns had little interest in keeping him. He didn’t get any meaningful minutes until recently and he has looked pretty good to me. I am glad he is getting a chance. Them trying to make him a forward instead of a center seems a little like forcing a square into a round hole. Glad he is getting a chance to play center and is holding his own.
I still remember when they changed Walter Davis from a small forward to shooting guard. It was an adjustment but it worked out in the end.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 14890
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Split T »

Was that a big change? Nowadays those positions are essentially interchangeable, but it was different in the 80’s
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Harrison Barnes, PJ Washington, Kenrich Williams, Torrey Craig

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 23625
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:31 pm
Was that a big change? Nowadays those positions are essentially interchangeable, but it was different in the 80’s
I do remember it being a big deal at the time and Davis saying it took some time to thrive in his new role.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

User avatar
LazarusLong
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (26-7) vs Thunder (12-21), 12/29/21

Post by LazarusLong »

They moved Davis to guard to get more rebounding in the lineup and to make room for Larry Nance.
Suns got Mo Lucas to go along with Alvan Adams up front.
Phoenix like Nance's athleticism, so they moved him in as forward and put Davis as guard.
Davis had to handle to ball a bit more, but the transition wasn't difficult.
Forget about Sarver--keep your eyes on the prize.

Post Reply