2022 Trade Deadline Talk

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Superbone
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Superbone »

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:58 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:14 pm
I know many on here will be upset for me suggesting it, but the fact that we’ve been able to plug and play so many centers into the lineup without really missing a beat is making me think about what we could get for Ayton again.

Ultimately I wouldn’t do it until the offseason(depending on how these playoffs go), but sometimes it’s interesting to think about. I mainly wouldn’t do it because I think the playoffs are a different beast and while our backup centers are doing very good Ayton impressions, the things they can’t do will stand out in the post season.

Like playing defense without fouling(McGee)
Touch around the basket on non-dunks(Biyombo)
Rim protection(Frank and Dario)
Defending bigger post players(Jalen)

Ayton is a little bit of all of them rolled into one and we’d miss him in the playoffs…so while he’s cheap I think you have to keep him, but here are just some interesting thoughts:

Ayton/Saric/Smith for KAT

Ayton/Saric/Smith for Wood/Gordon

Ayton/Saric/Crowder for Siakam

Ayton for Washington/Bridges

Then a crazy 3 team deal:

Ayton/Saric/Nader to Portland
McCollum/Smith to Philly
Simmons to Phoenix

Portland probably needs to give a pick or 2 here.

Mostly just for fun, but if the suns still have reservations about paying Ayton…moving him has to be on the table. Do any of these make sense?

I like Siakam the best, but his contract makes it the trickiest. But he’s the kind of guy you want if you’re moving Ayton. A legit PF, who can play small ball 5, defends, and is a proven 3rd scorer that can create for himself and others.
Ugh.

You could combine 5 players strengths to replace LeBron too. Or Steph. Or Nader.
These are the kinds of trades people try to pull on me all the time. Hey, these five guys combined have the same stats as your one guy!
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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:14 pm
I know many on here will be upset for me suggesting it
looks like you were right! :P
Split was just trying to stir up interest in this thread. I see you Split, not fooling me.

(Even if I like the thought experiment.)
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SunsRIt
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by SunsRIt »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:14 pm
I know many on here will be upset for me suggesting it, but the fact that we’ve been able to plug and play so many centers into the lineup without really missing a beat is making me think about what we could get for Ayton again.

Ultimately I wouldn’t do it until the offseason(depending on how these playoffs go), but sometimes it’s interesting to think about. I mainly wouldn’t do it because I think the playoffs are a different beast and while our backup centers are doing very good Ayton impressions, the things they can’t do will stand out in the post season.

Like playing defense without fouling(McGee)
Touch around the basket on non-dunks(Biyombo)
Rim protection(Frank and Dario)
Defending bigger post players(Jalen)

Ayton is a little bit of all of them rolled into one and we’d miss him in the playoffs…so while he’s cheap I think you have to keep him, but here are just some interesting thoughts:

Ayton/Saric/Smith for KAT

Ayton/Saric/Smith for Wood/Gordon

Ayton/Saric/Crowder for Siakam

Ayton for Washington/Bridges

Then a crazy 3 team deal:

Ayton/Saric/Nader to Portland
McCollum/Smith to Philly
Simmons to Phoenix

Portland probably needs to give a pick or 2 here.

Mostly just for fun, but if the suns still have reservations about paying Ayton…moving him has to be on the table. Do any of these make sense?

I like Siakam the best, but his contract makes it the trickiest. But he’s the kind of guy you want if you’re moving Ayton. A legit PF, who can play small ball 5, defends, and is a proven 3rd scorer that can create for himself and others.
Please stop.

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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:45 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:14 pm
I know many on here will be upset for me suggesting it
looks like you were right! :P
Split was just trying to stir up interest in this thread. I see you Split, not fooling me.

(Even if I like the thought experiment.)
Haha, well I did start it, gotta get it going
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

You guys are a bunch of downers. It's been a while since we all annoyed each other with Ayton talk.

MORE FAKE AYTON TRADES!

Ayton/Saric for Myles Turner/Chris Duarte/1st round pick
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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:04 pm
You guys are a bunch of downers. It's been a while since we all annoyed each other with Ayton talk.

MORE FAKE AYTON TRADES!

Ayton/Saric for Myles Turner/Chris Duarte/1st round pick
Haha, you get that from Simmons podcast?
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:07 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:04 pm
You guys are a bunch of downers. It's been a while since we all annoyed each other with Ayton talk.

MORE FAKE AYTON TRADES!

Ayton/Saric for Myles Turner/Chris Duarte/1st round pick
Haha, you get that from Simmons podcast?
He got it from my podcast.
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Superbone
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Superbone »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:08 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:07 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:04 pm
You guys are a bunch of downers. It's been a while since we all annoyed each other with Ayton talk.

MORE FAKE AYTON TRADES!

Ayton/Saric for Myles Turner/Chris Duarte/1st round pick
Haha, you get that from Simmons podcast?
He got it from my podcast.
You forgot to say, "'Who says no?"
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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

I will say that I’m really not looking to trade Ayton right now. He’s mostly been doing everything I want from him. I’m still just a little opposed to giving out max deals to guys who need help creating offense.

Yes I know you can’t just add players together to make up for everything Ayton does. That was actually my point in my original post and I must not have explained it very well. You might get 75% of Ayton with a Javale/Biyombo combo but there’s a chance that extra 25% turns Javale/Biyombo into unplayable bigs in certain matchups.

Is it not tempting to add another offensive creator? Another outlet for CP3 and Book? I know Mikal and Cam have shown flashes, but they aren’t that yet. Someone like Pascal Siakam is. He attacks the rim, he draws fouls, he defends. He can create. You couldn’t trap Paul or Book anymore. I just think he would be awesome here in the Crowder spot. And would more than make up for the 25% downgrade from Ayton to Javale/Biyombo. The risk is whether Javale/Biyombo become unplayable…then it gets tricky. At that point I think you’d want at least 1 different look at the 5 as Javale and Biyombo have similar limitations. But if they get played off, then Ayton for Siakam probably is a loss.

Anyways, it’s all moot. The suns aren’t trading Ayton this season. Sorry to set everyone off haha
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:17 pm
I’m still just a little opposed to giving out max deals to guys who need help creating offense.
Out of fear of turning this into a full on Ayton debate, I'll keep this short. I was joking about more fake Ayton trades if that wasn't clear to anyone.

The evidence shows that NBA GM's agree with you.

Have a look at the top salaries in the league. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/co ... ayers.html).

The first year of Ayton's max salary would put him right around $30M, good for about the 30th highest salary in the league. Based on the ranking of highest salaries, he'd be the only guy besides Rudy Gobert in the top 30 who isn't a threat to create their own offense. Furthermore, going the other direction, Al Horford, the 40th highest paid player ($27M this year), is currently the next guy after Gobert in the ranking who's never really been a self creator.
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LazarusLong
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by LazarusLong »

It's a fan site.
Part of the fun is to spitball trade ideas that probably would never happen.
Forget about Sarver--keep your eyes on the prize.

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pickle
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by pickle »

I'm not so high on Siakam as you, Split. I think Siakam hasn't really proven himself to be a viable 3rd option on a championship team. I'd argue that the #3 on that Raptors team was FVV. There's also been some chatter of his maturity issues, though that hasn't been his reputation. Ultimately he doesn't seem like someone that can carry an offense, and his defense isn't bad but he's never been mentioned in any All-Defensive team conversations, so I'm not that into him. If we were really trying to blow it up with Ayton and Raptors, I'd rather target OG. I am sure I'm overvaluing him, but I'd do Ayton/Saric/Smith and maybe even consider throwing in a pick for OG and FVV. Not that the Raps are trying to move either player.

I am happy to have a guy like Biyombo on the team, but I also agree with the thought that he doesn't add a new dimension to our 5 rotation. Another blue collar physical player who can rebound and dunk. Those dunks are pretty and ferocious, but he's not spacing anybody. Had family duties yesterday and didn't see the second half of the Heat game, so I'm not sure how he fares against perimeter players in a switch. I thought he was 6'10 and didn't realize that he's actually 6'8... not that the size really matters that much, but maybe he's more agile than I gave him credit for?

Not picking up Jalen's option means that he's not even a trade asset other than a matching salary now, since nobody can pick him up and retain him. We really really shot ourselves in the foot with that one.

Did we ever try to apply for a disabled player exception with Saric? I wish there was some way we could retain Justin Jackson. I am also quite partial to length and he's at least gotten past the new player jitters stage of his career so you can just throw him out there. He's longer but leaner than Craig, but I think he can play a similar role.

I'm worried about the two CPs as I've mentioned elsewhere. I think Payton is doing his best, and I like him, but I guess he's maybe not quite enough if we want to go deep. A few ways we could go with this... names I'm interested in include Eric Gordon (expensive and probably not happening), Garrett Temple (not sure if the Pelicans are ready to blow it up), Payton Pritchard (doubt the Celtics let him go), one of Orlando's 4 point guards (also doubt they move any of them, maybe Fultz is available?), TJ McConnell (might be expendable now that Stephenson is back), and ... are we interested in taking a 10 day trial with Dunn?

Reddish is apparently available. If Stix were on his rookie deal still, I'd swap him and a future draft pick for Reddish.

Still hoping for a robust backup 4/5 who can stretch it out and be more mobile on the perimeter. I've mentioned in the past that Marcus M***** fits the mode. Jerami Grant would be a dream come true and I still like Nance. Wouldn't throw a pick at Thad though... San Antonio might have overplayed its hand on that one.

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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

Well I won’t argue too much, I love VanVleet, I think he’s better than Siakam too. I honestly love that Raptors team as I’m pretty high on Anunoby too. I think they have a bright future and are going to be a really tough matchup in the playoffs. They are building a very Clippers esque roster that can just play a bunch of 6’8 wings that can dribble, pass, shoot, and defend. When healthy, their starting lineup has been FVV/Trent/Barnes/Anunoby/Siakam.
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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ShelC
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by ShelC »

I'm not sure how active we'll be. Maybe we'll shop Stix to gauge his value now but the FO has always talked about continuity and I can't see them making any significant moves in the middle of this kind of a season. I might entertain Saric and Stix for Thad but no 1sts are going out and I might ask for a pick or two back. We really need to be careful swapping out young players/draft picks for "win-now" vets like Thad and Gordon who are both 33. I know Gordon isn't so realistic and Thad is a FA but we may have already given up on Stix, used a 24th pick on Jerome and sent him out, traded a pick for Shamet (which wasn't so bad considering he's only 24).

I'd like to add a better scoring guard off the bench, but that role is filled by Shamet who won't be traded.

I think we'll more active in the buyout market similar to last year.

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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by pickle »

My problem with Gordon is his salary. I still think he’s a useful player and fills a need. Might still prefer Temple for his ability to defend bigger players tho. And his salary is much more palatable.

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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

Article with 10 potential suns deals:



Sign me up for the EG trade. Hard pass on any of those trades including Cam Johnson. Also, Nic Batum may be my favorite Jalen Smith trade I’ve seen. I’ll take the Covington and Nance traded as well.
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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pickle
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by pickle »

I know he’s a hated name but if we are sending first rounders to the Clips shouldn’t we try to get Morris instead of Ibaka?

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Split T
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by Split T »

pickle wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:55 am
I know he’s a hated name but if we are sending first rounders to the Clips shouldn’t we try to get Morris instead of Ibaka?
There’s a 0% chance Morris is coming back here. And I’m not interested in the Ibaka trade. Just the Batum by himself one.
My wish list: Nic Batum, Eric Gordon, Larry Nance Jr, Robert Covington, PJ Washington

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SunsRIt
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by SunsRIt »

pickle wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:55 am
I know he’s a hated name but if we are sending first rounders to the Clips shouldn’t we try to get Morris instead of Ibaka?
Hell no.

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ShelC
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Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk

Post by ShelC »

I really hate that we're probably going to lose Stix via trade or FA. Part of me does think that he won't get the opportunity he needs playing behind DA strictly as a 5 anyway, so it's in his best interest to go some place where he'll get his minutes at the 5. I have some concerns about our FA bigs in the summer. Hopefully the FO has a good idea and the inside track on JaVale and Biyombo. There's also the possibility we lose all 3 guys.

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