'21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 17605
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:15 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:10 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:03 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:19 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:19 pm


Will Wiggins ever average 10 rebounds a game? Or shoot 60% in a season? (okay, how about 50%?)

Why are we comparing a 6'7" small forward to a 7' center?
Because JeremyG pointed out they are both former 1st overall picks that a lot of people didn’t think were worth the max.

Problem is Wiggins spent most of his max contract being considered one of the worst contracts in basketball. He’s now providing positive play, but he’s going into the last year of the deal.

I don’t think it’s a good comparison because it took until the 4th year of his max contract before he was actually useful. Also Minny had to attach a pick to him to move him. Also, he was a much worse player than Ayton is right now.

Yes Wiggins is showing that players can find a way to contribute later in their careers, but that’s never been the problem with Ayton. Nobody doubts that. We all know he can contribute, it’s about what he’s contributing. Right now what this team needs most is more on ball creation. Paying Ayton 30 million a year makes finding on ball creation very difficult.

It’s also important to point out that the Warriors willingness to pay ridiculous luxury tax fees is a huge part of this. Wiggins costs them a ton and they are willing to pay for that luxury. The suns could conceivably pay Ayton 30 million a year to be a 4th option, but Sarver would have to be willing to pay ridiculous luxury tax fees.

All this is to say, that I don’t think there’s a good comparison to be made about the Wiggins situation and the Ayton situation.
So? Sarver owes it to us to pay ridiculous luxury tax fees. Why aren’t we demanding he do it instead of calling for Ayton to be traded?

And your argument that Ayton is already better than a max player has become is supposed to hurt my position how exactly? We already know we can get great games in the Finals from DA, at a much younger age than Wiggins. The man had 22 points and 19 rebounds in his first ever Finals game at the age of 22 freaking years old, for goodness sakes!
I think your position is wrong because you’re talking up Wiggins like he’s some example of success. He’s not. He had one of the 5 worst contracts in basketball until this year. Now it’s just a regular bad contract. You don’t max someone because they had a good finals game.

My point is I wouldn’t want Wiggins at the max. Even now that he’s shown usefulness. I would rather have Ayton at the max. That doesn’t mean I’d want either, but given a choice I’d take Ayton for sure.

As for Sarver. It’s pointless to pretend he might change and be willing to pay crazy luxury tax fees. If he’s willing to and still add more salary to get a 3rd creator, I’d be perfectly fine maxing Ayton.

So for the record, I’d be all for maxing Ayton, as long as we also upgraded Crowder to Barnes or Grant and then upgraded Shamet/Payne to Eric Gordon. Or similar upgrades, while also paying Cam J and not losing CP3, Book, or Mikal.

Sign me up for

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Grant/Ayton with
Holiday/Gordon/CamJ/Wainright/Saric off the bench.
Sign me up for it, too! (Finally we agree! Lol)

I don’t think Wiggins is a bad contract, especially for the Warriors. If he’s helping them win a championship, then it’s a great contract.

Same with Ayton. If you have to pay him the max, even if you don’t consider him to be a max player, in order to keep the team together and keep your young core and compete for championships for years to come, then it’s not a bad contract. Both Sarver and Jones have claimed that the luxury tax is not a concern. Let them put their money where their mouth is.
Sure it’s fine for the warriors. But why I say it’s a bad contract is because you normally get better value for a 30 million dollar player. Take the 5 guys right above him and below him in salary:

Booker, KAT, Simmons, Murray, Embiid, Siakam, Love, McCollum, Paul, and Jokic.

You’d maybe take him over Simmons and Love and just because Simmons wouldn’t play. So that’s like 15th percentile in level of play for his salary.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 15974
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Mori Chu »

Do we know anything about how Sarver is doing financially lately? Recent downward trending in the economy and real estate markets might have hurt his finances. He also left his position at one of his major investment groups. Is he still making the kind of income one would need to make to be a thriving, high-spending NBA owner? Will he feel pressure to sell the team due to lack of funds?

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 17605
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Split T »

Let’s hope

User avatar
Aztec Sunsfan
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Truth is, that despite a NBA franchise can generate a price tag north of $1,500 millions, Sarver it’s just the managing partner of an ownership group, he won’t pocket himself that much. It’s easier to get him out through the NBA investigation, that by selling the Team.

We already saw a failed power play from that dude emerging from nowhere in the middle of the investigation, so we can speculate, that selling his stake it’s also out of the question. Leaving that banking board was probably the biggest hit Sarver has taken from that investigation, but most likely was not unexpected to him. When I saw that note, I thought that it was the first domino falling, since that kind of circles usually have privileged information and can make adjustments in advance of bad news, long before they break out to the public. But a coup was already conjured, so Sarver would be “willingly” stepping down if this was indeed the beginning of the end and the NBA have already decided his fate and just waiting for the right time to announce it. Would not be deeply surprised if he just get stripped from his management duties but retain his stake.

Rich men usually attaches too much to their trophy toys (like classic cars) because of the combination of status and appareance they bring. Later on, gossiping along the lines like “Oh, he HAD to sell the boat” swirling around, are too much for their egos, so they postpone that kind of moves as much as they can, instead of the savvy time to do it. On top of it, some of those toys are really really hard to come by, not in terms of cost, but AVAILABILITY.

Sarver won’t sale his stake, it’s the only thing that makes him different on his white, rich, banking world. But a desperate Sarver selling to ANYONE, could be a much worse scenario that the current status quo.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18958
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

But to your point, Sarver can't sell the team. It would have to be the ownership group. So I feel less worried about who they might sell to. In the end, I agree with your thoughts that they likely won't force him/them to sell the team. They will likely (hopefully) force him out as managing partner. Then Jahm can take over.

User avatar
Shabazz
Posts: 5778
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Shabazz »

Not sure how I feel about this Jahm guy. I wouldn't mind the Bob Iger group.
Targets: KD, Schroder, Micic, Favors, Kemba, Bembry, Paschall, Watanabe, Avdija, Keita BD, K. Hayes, J. Isaac, Jalen Johnson, K. Lewis, Maledon, Metu, Olynyk, Quickley, P. Reed, JRE, J Vanderbilt, Aaron Wiggins

User avatar
TOO
Posts: 6565
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by TOO »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:39 am
Not sure how I feel about this Jahm guy. I wouldn't mind the Bob Iger group.
Why?

What's the difference?

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18958
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

All billionaires are going to have issues. At least Jahm has been putting lots of money into good causes. And it wouldn't be a forced sell of the team since he is already a part owner. It would just require kicking Sarver out of the managing partner chair.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 17605
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Split T »

If we’re lucky enough to get rid of Sarver, hopefully the new guy has deeper pockets or is at least more willing to spend and will be more hands off with player personnel decisions. Also not being a racist, sexist jerk goes without saying.

User avatar
Aztec Sunsfan
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Not sure how much is that of an endorsement, money is something they have to spare, so many folks on that income ballpark can buy status and absolution that way, not to mention the huge amount of taxes they save.

His timing into the spotlight and presenting himself as a savior and defender of the good, irks me a little too much. This thing supposedly have years running and he didn’t get a clue back then? Of course he is not into the day to day operation, but still, nothing?

That’s why he strikes more as the opportunistic type, trying to steal The Chair for himself and nothing else.

Drewsprocket
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Drewsprocket »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 am
If we’re lucky enough to get rid of Sarver, hopefully the new guy has deeper pockets or is at least more willing to spend and will be more hands off with player personnel decisions. Also not being a racist, sexist jerk goes without saying.
The next Billionaire owner is set up for success. The path is so obviously clear: don’t be misogynistic, no dropping N words like a teenaged Justin Bieber, treat your team like a public good and not your personal sandbox, drop $ on getting stars, make your facilities attractive to come play for, and no weirdo hijinx during games.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18958
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:49 am
Not sure how much is that of an endorsement, money is something they have to spare, so many folks on that income ballpark can buy status and absolution that way, not to mention the huge amount of taxes they save.

His timing into the spotlight and presenting himself as a savior and defender of the good, irks me a little too much. This thing supposedly have years running and he didn’t get a clue back then? Of course he is not into the day to day operation, but still, nothing?

That’s why he strikes more as the opportunistic type, trying to steal The Chair for himself and nothing else.
It could absolutely be both. Jahm could be doing this for the spotlight, while Sarver can also be an awful human being.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 25824
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Superbone »

First time I've heard of Fake Klay:

"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

User avatar
Shabazz
Posts: 5778
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Shabazz »

TOO wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:00 am
Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:39 am
Not sure how I feel about this Jahm guy. I wouldn't mind the Bob Iger group.
Why?

What's the difference?
Aztec kind of touched on it. I’d prefer an owner who doesn’t seek out the spotlight because they tend to be more involved in basketball decisions and that rarely leads to good outcomes. I also think Iger is a brilliant executive.

If Jahm is acusually worth $3.5B, then that would vault our managing partner from 27th wealthiest to ~15th. Not bad.
Targets: KD, Schroder, Micic, Favors, Kemba, Bembry, Paschall, Watanabe, Avdija, Keita BD, K. Hayes, J. Isaac, Jalen Johnson, K. Lewis, Maledon, Metu, Olynyk, Quickley, P. Reed, JRE, J Vanderbilt, Aaron Wiggins

Drewsprocket
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Drewsprocket »

I’d gladly accept Williams as a part of the deal. He’s got a good ceiling and if developed will be a solid starter.

JeremyG
Posts: 3614
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:16 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:07 am
Do we know anything about how Sarver is doing financially lately? Recent downward trending in the economy and real estate markets might have hurt his finances. He also left his position at one of his major investment groups. Is he still making the kind of income one would need to make to be a thriving, high-spending NBA owner? Will he feel pressure to sell the team due to lack of funds?
I wouldn't say the real estate market has had a downard trend...at least not yet.

JeremyG
Posts: 3614
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:16 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:15 pm
First time I've heard of Fake Klay:

He's an awesome YouTuber from Tempe. He's been doing viral prank videos for years, a lot of them filmed at ASU. He also does a lot of videos where he randomly gives things or money to people.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 8595
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I know the NBA media has been milking it dry, but that was a career legacy performance from Steph Curry.

I think we'd have to go all the way back to the 1990 Pistons to find a Finals winner who's best player was also their smallest.

Some will say Curry did it with the 2014 Warriors, but I think that team had better talent than this 2022 winner so it wasn't expected of Curry to be the best player every game in the 2014 Finals.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Wally_West
Posts: 5256
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:12 pm

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Wally_West »

How about this Ayton S&T:

Ayton, Crowder and Craig for Al Horford and Robert Williams.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 18958
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

Wally_West wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:53 am
How about this Ayton S&T:

Ayton, Crowder and Craig for Al Horford and Robert Williams.
I think Horford is on an expiring deal, so it is really all of those guys for Williams. I like him, and he is on a great contract, but that seems lopsided in Boston's favor.

Post Reply