'21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

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JeremyG
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Split T wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 5:50 am
There is another scenario where Ayton is done with us…that’s the scenario where we are essentially forced to try and sign and trade him. If he’s going to sign an offer sheet and ask us not to match, that’s when I am fine S&T him for someone who’s not a star. Turner and 6, WCJ and Anthony, etc. I could still get behind matching and trading him later, but I’d worry about him in the locker room and his play on the court if he’s checked out of here. We’ve all seen how he plays when he’s not engaged and it’s not exactly great.
That's the exact scenario I've been predicting since last summer, à la Joe Johnson. Which is why I've always said it was foolish to not extend him last summer. He'll want out, and the team will get worse.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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JeremyG
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:00 am
JeremyG wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 11:49 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm
Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.
Then what exactly are you suggesting? We trade him midseason and make the team worse instead of trading him now and making the team worse?
The whole point of matching any offer is to avoid letting him walk for nothing at all, which everyone knows is the worst outcome.

I'm suggesting they replace Ayton with an established star, or at a minimum 2 high level rotation players, who're preferably a wing or big that can create offense. Fill Ayton's position and role with a platoon of guys of varying skill sets. I don't care when the trades happen.

And of course your only two conceivable outcomes of an Ayton trade are "worse" and "worse". You've already said Ayton would be Shaq if he got more "touches".
So Ayton is not worth a max deal but you expect to be able to trade him for an established star? You're not even going to get equal value for him, especially if teams know there is discontent on both sides.

I've never said he would be Shaq if he got more touches, but keep putting words in my mouth if you want.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Split T
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:44 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 5:50 am
There is another scenario where Ayton is done with us…that’s the scenario where we are essentially forced to try and sign and trade him. If he’s going to sign an offer sheet and ask us not to match, that’s when I am fine S&T him for someone who’s not a star. Turner and 6, WCJ and Anthony, etc. I could still get behind matching and trading him later, but I’d worry about him in the locker room and his play on the court if he’s checked out of here. We’ve all seen how he plays when he’s not engaged and it’s not exactly great.
That's the exact scenario I've been predicting since last summer, à la Joe Johnson. Which is why I've always said it was foolish to not extend him last summer. He'll want out, and the team will get worse.
There definitely would have been some benefit to having him under contract right now. Whether we want to keep him or trade him, both would be easier if he was under contract.

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JeremyG
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Yep. Considering all of that, then it looks like Sarver is the likely culprit once again.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

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JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:54 pm
Yep. Considering all of that, then it looks like Sarver is the likely culprit once again.
I think Sarver is an awful human and bad a running a basketball team. But it seemed pretty clear that James Jones and his team didn't feel it would make sense to sign Ayton to a 5 year max extension last year.

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Indy
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:32 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:05 pm
...

So you don't waste another season when your 2nd best player is 37?

If he really did quit on the team and there is more to the story of him needing so much hand holding, do you bring that energy back?

I mean the most defining moment of last year's Finals was that speech Monty gave to Ayton when he was having a shitty game and Monty had to keep telling him to get out there and impact the game. Sure it was a great moment to see what kind of motivator Monty can be. But it was also a very clear picture of a guy needing that type of speech to just pick up his head and play basketball.
You don't have to worry about that. He wasn't even our 2nd best player in the 2022 postseason. No way will he be our 2nd best next season.
Like Split said, CP was our best player this post-season, even with his complete drop off after 8 games. Book was 2nd even though he missed time during Pels.

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JeremyG
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:08 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:32 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:05 pm
...

So you don't waste another season when your 2nd best player is 37?

If he really did quit on the team and there is more to the story of him needing so much hand holding, do you bring that energy back?

I mean the most defining moment of last year's Finals was that speech Monty gave to Ayton when he was having a shitty game and Monty had to keep telling him to get out there and impact the game. Sure it was a great moment to see what kind of motivator Monty can be. But it was also a very clear picture of a guy needing that type of speech to just pick up his head and play basketball.
You don't have to worry about that. He wasn't even our 2nd best player in the 2022 postseason. No way will he be our 2nd best next season.
Like Split said, CP was our best player this post-season, even with his complete drop off after 8 games. Book was 2nd even though he missed time during Pels.
Lol, if DA had done what CP3 did the first 8 games and then sucked for 5 games, there's no way you would declare him our best player this postseason.

But let's roll with your scenario. You trade DA for half his value so you "don't waste another season" with Chris Paul. But there's no way that team would get to the Finals, especially with CP3 a year older. If you're gonna trade DA, you might as well trade CP3 and really blow it all up.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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JeremyG
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:06 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:54 pm
Yep. Considering all of that, then it looks like Sarver is the likely culprit once again.
I think Sarver is an awful human and bad a running a basketball team. But it seemed pretty clear that James Jones and his team didn't feel it would make sense to sign Ayton to a 5 year max extension last year.
But like Split said, it would actually have made it easier to trade him (especially for better value in return) if they decided after this season that they don't want to keep him around.

Did Jones really believe that it would be difficult to trade him if he was under a max contract?
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:04 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 1:06 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:54 pm
Yep. Considering all of that, then it looks like Sarver is the likely culprit once again.
I think Sarver is an awful human and bad a running a basketball team. But it seemed pretty clear that James Jones and his team didn't feel it would make sense to sign Ayton to a 5 year max extension last year.
But like Split said, it would actually have made it easier to trade him (especially for better value in return) if they decided after this season that they don't want to keep him around.

Did Jones really believe that it would be difficult to trade him if he was under a max contract?
I think it would give us another asset to trade, but I am not sure it would make it easier to build a team with him on a 5 year designated rookie max extension. I would bet money on Jones already knowing where he wanted to trade DA and what it would mean. I don't think any good GM would want to lose an asset for nothing. So I think he has a plan.

This is a good thread...




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Superbone
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Superbone »

Yes, please. I would welcome another star joining the team.
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Superbone
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

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Look, nobody wants to lose Ayton for nothing. He's just not worth the max for what he brings to the team. However, let supply and demand run its course. If he gets a max offer, so be it, we have to match. Can't lose him for nothing and then go from there. It's not my money but it will hamper us in bringing in other complementary players.

Bottom line is we have to do what's best for the team. Not what's best for Ayton or Robert Sarver's pocketbook. James Jones, feel free to work your magic. Or a the very least, minimize the damage. But make no mistake, the time is now. The Championship window is open now. Sure, make some long term moves but we have to concentrate on the here and now. I just hope the window has not already passed us.
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Superbone
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Superbone »

Speaking of the window, we do have a nice young core that hasn't hit their peaks in Book, Mikal, Johnson, and yes, Ayton. If we do move on from Ayton, it needs to be for somebody in that same timeline or at least close.
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Split T
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Split T »

Superbone wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:49 pm
Speaking of the window, we do have a nice young core that hasn't hit their peaks in Book, Mikal, Johnson, and yes, Ayton. If we do move on from Ayton, it needs to be for somebody in that same timeline or at least close.
Well unless it’s KD…then you just go for it. But I would agree that targeting a lesser or lateral vet player doesn’t make much sense at all…say like Nik Vucevic

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Wally_West
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Wally_West »

Man…


Miami and Boston are absolute dog shit offensively.

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Indy
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Indy »

Wally_West wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:24 pm
Man…


Miami and Boston are absolute dog shit offensively.
How would you describe us during most of the Dallas series?

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Shabazz
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

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Wally_West wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:24 pm
Man…


Miami and Boston are absolute dog shit offensively.
Watching these games just makes me more pissed about our finish. We should have rolled through the playoffs. These teams are ass and it will be a long time before the path to a championship is less competitive.

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Wally_West
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Wally_West »

Indy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:39 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:24 pm
Man…


Miami and Boston are absolute dog shit offensively.
How would you describe us during most of the Dallas series?
Before game 7, 50% of the time, we were amazing every time. :P

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Wally_West
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Wally_West »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:24 pm
Man…


Miami and Boston are absolute dog shit offensively.
Watching these games just makes me more pissed about our finish. We should have rolled through the playoffs. These teams are ass and it will be a long time before the path to a championship is less competitive.
Yep. It’s fucking hurts. This year might’ve broken me, tbh. I just didn’t recognize this team at the end.

Even watching the Warriors/Mavs series, warriors don’t really look that impressive. I’m positive we’d be up would’ve went up 2-0*

*Then immediately ate shit afterwards

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Mori Chu
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

Post by Mori Chu »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Watching these games just makes me more pissed about our finish. We should have rolled through the playoffs. These teams are ass and it will be a long time before the path to a championship is less competitive.
Totally. You're not going to ever have 2 seasons back-to-back in which it would be easier to win a title than these two. There just weren't dominant teams in the league these two seasons. All the supposed super-teams like the Lebron/AD Lakers and the KD/Kyrie Nets flamed out. Other teams had big injuries (Kawhi; Murray). The path is never going to be so clear to snatch one or two titles. And we couldn't get there. It is hard for me to stomach that as a fan.

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Wally_West
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Re: '21-'22 NBA Playoffs Games/Series

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