Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Indy]

I know I have said it a lot, too, but putting Ayton in the top 5 is debatable. Clearly you have Jokic and Embiid. After that: Ayton, KAT, Gobert, Bam, AD (he played more 5 than 4), Sabonis, Vuc, JV. I am not saying I put all these guys above him, but I think it is debatable if he is top 5. Some GMs will have at least 3 of those guys ahead of him. He is certainly top 10--I doubt any GM would have him lower than that.

[specialsauce]

Dude. You said you don’t see either team being better with Ayton instead of Looney, Bjelica, or Horford. It’s just pure hate at this point.


Also.

On our team DA gets the 2nd most shots of anyone (yes more than CP3).

On the Warriors, Ayton would easily be their 4th to 5th option. You think that makes them better with DA getting 7-8 shots a night when he was getting 12 here? There is no way they would be paying him as much as Klay to take 8 shots a game. And if you say he should be taking more shots (like he says he should) that means Steph, Klay and Poole all take less. That is not a way to win.

And the one guy of their top 4 he is better at scoring is Draymond, who is their best playmaker and their connector. DA couldn't do any of that.

For the Celtics, Horford is their 4th option and I don't see that changing if you replace him with DA. I don't see DA cracking their big 3 (despite how inefficient Smart can be).

None of this is what you said. You’re changing your story and now you’re even bringing his contract into it. You said DA wouldn’t make the Warriors better by replacing Looney or Bjelica.

[Indy]

That is exactly what I said. He wouldn't make them better--because he wouldn't crack their top 3 or 4. I don't think they would be clear favorites to win the title if they had Ayton over Looney. And same for Boston. I don't think they would be clear favorites if they had Ayton over Horford. I don't think that is a controversial take.

[JeremyG]

That is exactly what I said. He wouldn't make them better--because he wouldn't crack their top 3 or 4. I don't think they would be clear favorites to win the title if they had Ayton over Looney. And same for Boston. I don't think they would be clear favorites if they had Ayton over Horford. I don't think that is a controversial take.

You're talking about how many shot attempts he would get. Why couldn't he make them better in other areas?

[Wormwood]

Rebounding is not hard to find…if you can get Durant, you get Durant and figure out the rebounding later.

Yup. That and Durant is an upgrade in rebounding at PF.

Ayton's 9.8 RPG is good, but not great. And he looked pretty anemic in the playoffs at times (not boxing out, not fighting, not jumping for them).

What teams need now out of a center is the ability to shoot the three, defend out to the perimeter, and rebound. Oddly enough, Maxi Kleber is kind of prototypical here.

[Indy]

That is exactly what I said. He wouldn't make them better--because he wouldn't crack their top 3 or 4. I don't think they would be clear favorites to win the title if they had Ayton over Looney. And same for Boston. I don't think they would be clear favorites if they had Ayton over Horford. I don't think that is a controversial take.

You're talking about how many shot attempts he would get. Why couldn't he make them better in other areas?

1) He is the 2nd option on this team and isn't happy with his role (at least not happy with how many shots he gets "I can't pass myself the ball")
2) If he isn't engaged in the offense, he isn't as engaged on defense. We have seen that for years.
3) He also is not a connector or play maker. Both Looney and Bjelica get more assists (in way less minutes and way less touches) than Ayton. Horford is over double his assist rate in the same minutes and a few more touches per game.

[Mori Chu]

I don't know if "Would the Warriors be better with Ayton than Looney" is the right question. For any player, fit and role are so important. Would the Suns be better with Ja Morant than Chris Paul? Maybe, maybe not. Morant is a better future prospect, but would he set our guys up as well as Paul does? Would Morant take shots away from Book or Ayton or others? I don't know. I am just saying that whether player A or B is a better fit on team X isn't the complete picture of who is the better player.

[specialsauce]

That is exactly what I said. He wouldn't make them better--because he wouldn't crack their top 3 or 4. I don't think they would be clear favorites to win the title if they had Ayton over Looney. And same for Boston. I don't think they would be clear favorites if they had Ayton over Horford. I don't think that is a controversial take.

Again, that’s not what you said.

You said better. You didn’t say “clear title favorites.” You didn’t say would be their third or fourth best player. You said better. Bjelica is neither of those things.

The fact of the matter is, you said that if you literally take Bjelica off Golden State and replace him with DA, you don’t think that improves GS one iota. That’s what you actually said. Now you’re changing your story each time.

Essentially, your LuC**k doesn’t allow you to objectively evaluate DAs value to this team.

The dudes gravity have Book and CP3 open lanes to hit Js. Gave open 3s to the corners. He scored at a historically efficient rate at the age of 22 and 23. So he’s not completely polished yet, what 23 year old big man is?

I know who isn’t, Bjelica.

[specialsauce]

I don't know if "Would the Warriors be better with Ayton than Looney" is the right question. For any player, fit and role are so important. Would the Suns be better with Ja Morant than Chris Paul? Maybe, maybe not. Morant is a better future prospect, but would he set our guys up as well as Paul does? Would Morant take shots away from Book or Ayton or others? I don't know. I am just saying that whether player A or B is a better fit on team X isn't the complete picture of who is the better player.

True. But at the end of the day, stars win championships. Not role players.

You can’t lack star power or sacrifice it for “fit” and win.

[Superbone]

Horford is better for Boston but Ayton would be an upgrade over Looney or Bjelica. Full stop.

[TOO]

I'd guess Ayton would probably be better utilized in Golden State than he is here, they just seem to maximize player talents better than the Suns do.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Steve Kerr is more of a hard ass than Monty.

Ayton would have have a difficult time adapting to their system because it's based on quick reads, which is one of Ayton's biggest weaknesses so far.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I know I have said it a lot, too, but putting Ayton in the top 5 is debatable. Clearly you have Jokic and Embiid. After that: Ayton, KAT, Gobert, Bam, AD (he played more 5 than 4), Sabonis, Vuc, JV. I am not saying I put all these guys above him, but I think it is debatable if he is top 5. Some GMs will have at least 3 of those guys ahead of him. He is certainly top 10--I doubt any GM would have him lower than that.

To add to Indy's point...

FTA/Game
Embiid - 11.44, #1
Jokic - 6.34, #14
Gobert - 6.71, #11
Adebayo - 5.62, #21
Davis - 6.10, #16
Sabonis - 5.35, #28
...
Ayton - 2.46, #100

Looking at this has images of Roger Dorn running around in my head...

[Superbone]

Everybody can just relax now...

[Drewsprocket]

I know I have said it a lot, too, but putting Ayton in the top 5 is debatable. Clearly you have Jokic and Embiid. After that: Ayton, KAT, Gobert, Bam, AD (he played more 5 than 4), Sabonis, Vuc, JV. I am not saying I put all these guys above him, but I think it is debatable if he is top 5. Some GMs will have at least 3 of those guys ahead of him. He is certainly top 10--I doubt any GM would have him lower than that.

To add to Indy's point...

FTA/Game
Embiid - 11.44, #1
Jokic - 6.34, #14
Gobert - 6.71, #11
Adebayo - 5.62, #21
Davis - 6.10, #16
Sabonis - 5.35, #28
...
Ayton - 2.46, #100

Looking at this has images of Roger Dorn running around in my head...

You’ve got to imagine they’ve talked this shit out with him. And being in the pick and roll is no excuse. Amare as a diver with Nash had like 7-9 FTAs. It’s a matter of going to the rim and taking contact. Ayton while he goes for his quick shots in the paint, should have by now realized that when he’s contested to go at the rim and get contact. It’s mindnumbing.

[sunset rubdown]

REPORT: Gregg Popovich would love to have the opportunity to develop DeAndre Ayton into a superstar caliber player.

- Popovich says Ayton is worth the max contract and he wants the San Antonio Spurs to make a strong push for him this offseason.

(via SA today)

Coach Pop knows.

[Shabazz]

Everybody can just relax now...

Love Flex's blind confidence tweets. .

[The Bobster]

REPORT: Gregg Popovich would love to have the opportunity to develop DeAndre Ayton into a superstar caliber player.

- Popovich says Ayton is worth the max contract and he wants the San Antonio Spurs to make a strong push for him this offseason.

(via SA today)

Coach Pop knows.

I'm pretty confident Pop never said this because this would be a clear case of tampering since he's not a free agent yet.

[Drewsprocket]

REPORT: Gregg Popovich would love to have the opportunity to develop DeAndre Ayton into a superstar caliber player.

- Popovich says Ayton is worth the max contract and he wants the San Antonio Spurs to make a strong push for him this offseason.

(via SA today)

Coach Pop knows.

I'm pretty confident Pop never said this because this would be a clear case of tampering since he's not a free agent yet.

I do believe Pop could be Ayton’s best option to maximize his career. I just hope JJ gonna fleece the f out of any team who becomes our trade partner.

[Indy]

REPORT: Gregg Popovich would love to have the opportunity to develop DeAndre Ayton into a superstar caliber player.

- Popovich says Ayton is worth the max contract and he wants the San Antonio Spurs to make a strong push for him this offseason.

(via SA today)

Coach Pop knows.

I'm pretty confident Pop never said this because this would be a clear case of tampering since he's not a free agent yet.

Yeah it is from a Mock Trade instagram post...