Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

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Shabazz
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Shabazz »

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:35 pm
No thank you to giving McGee a multi-year deal.

There are too many young, stretch bigs on the market to settle for McGee. The Suns should end up with one of Jalen Smith, Mo Bamba, or Isaiah Hartenstein.
There is a sub-zero percent chance Jalen Smith signs back here.

Hartenstein was on my target list last year but he’s getting a little too hyped right now and I think some team will overpay him.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I’d still rather have Hartenstein at half of Ayton’s salary if it meant they added another wing threat.
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Wally_West
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Wally_West »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:30 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:03 pm
This doesn’t pass the smell test.

1) Min just drafted Walker Kessler.
2) Ayton isn’t a shot blocker. Patrick Beverly averaged more BPG (so did Frank Kaminsky for that matter).
3) don’t see us being interested in D-lo and the money doesn’t work.
You don’t think Monty would let D-Lo bang his daughter???

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Shabazz
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Shabazz »

Wally_West wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:20 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:30 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:03 pm
This doesn’t pass the smell test.

1) Min just drafted Walker Kessler.
2) Ayton isn’t a shot blocker. Patrick Beverly averaged more BPG (so did Frank Kaminsky for that matter).
3) don’t see us being interested in D-lo and the money doesn’t work.
You don’t think Monty would let D-Lo bang his daughter???
Not even over the pants stuff.

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Wally_West
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Wally_West »


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JeremyG
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by JeremyG »



In other words, the Suns are delusional idiots. And when they add on “…because of Chris Paul” they’re deluding themselves even more. The dude is 38 years old next postseason.

Oh and does that quote apply to the playoffs or only the regular season? Again, idiotic line of thinking if that’s really how the Suns are planning their future.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by ShelC »

Sounds like McGee is gone and I had a feeling some other contenders would try and snag him. I have a feeling Biz is back in the fold so we're prob good letting McGee walk. If we lose McGee and Biz (and DA), then Jones better have a legit plan for some bigs - and not just Dario, a re-signed Frank or some other minimum type.

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bajanguy008
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by bajanguy008 »

The forum and Twitter continues to be a tough read and although this tweet is more pessimism regarding FA
At least it made me laugh



A guy like Troy
Never forget :oops:
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Mori Chu »

Just play Frank the Tank 40 minutes; we'll be fine.

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wpmiller42
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by wpmiller42 »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm


In other words, the Suns are delusional idiots. And when they add on “…because of Chris Paul” they’re deluding themselves even more. The dude is 38 years old next postseason.

Oh and does that quote apply to the playoffs or only the regular season? Again, idiotic line of thinking if that’s really how the Suns are planning their future.
It seems like Windhorst is behind a bunch of these "quotes" that paint the Suns front office in a negative light, so I'm guessing there's some connection with DA's camp there.

Anyways, that's sort of besides the point. I love DA, and I want to keep him on the team and I want him to develop into the dominant force I think he can be, but that's the big question, right? Defensively, I think he's got a great basketball IQ, and I really think he's underrated on how great a defensive player he is. But there are a bunch of really good centers out there that we could get that might not be as great as DA, but serviceable enough.

To me, the question is offensively. It's not about touches, he gets those. But as great as his defensive bball IQ is, his offensive bball IQ is really suspect. He doesn't take advantage of mismatches, he's an average passer at best, doesn't get to the free throw line... I mean, there are a ton of really legitimate criticisms that can be made. And it's a gamble on if he's going to put the work in to be a great, max level, offensive player.

I really believe that if the traits were reversed, DA's offense was as good as his defense and vice versa, not only would DA have his max contract, but we'd have a championship at this point. It's cliche to say defense wins championships, but honestly, offense does, and the stats bear that out.

My hope is that we keep DA, and that DA puts in the work to be great offensively. But it's such a huge gamble, so I don't blame any team for not thinking he's a max player because he really hasn't shown offensively that he is. But if he can put the offense part of his game together, I think that puts us in contention (and maybe a better backup PG).

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Indy
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Indy »

Gambo also reported that Frank isn't likely to be on the team.

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Indy
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Indy »

wpmiller42 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:05 am
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm


In other words, the Suns are delusional idiots. And when they add on “…because of Chris Paul” they’re deluding themselves even more. The dude is 38 years old next postseason.

Oh and does that quote apply to the playoffs or only the regular season? Again, idiotic line of thinking if that’s really how the Suns are planning their future.
It seems like Windhorst is behind a bunch of these "quotes" that paint the Suns front office in a negative light, so I'm guessing there's some connection with DA's camp there.

Anyways, that's sort of besides the point. I love DA, and I want to keep him on the team and I want him to develop into the dominant force I think he can be, but that's the big question, right? Defensively, I think he's got a great basketball IQ, and I really think he's underrated on how great a defensive player he is. But there are a bunch of really good centers out there that we could get that might not be as great as DA, but serviceable enough.

To me, the question is offensively. It's not about touches, he gets those. But as great as his defensive bball IQ is, his offensive bball IQ is really suspect. He doesn't take advantage of mismatches, he's an average passer at best, doesn't get to the free throw line... I mean, there are a ton of really legitimate criticisms that can be made. And it's a gamble on if he's going to put the work in to be a great, max level, offensive player.

I really believe that if the traits were reversed, DA's offense was as good as his defense and vice versa, not only would DA have his max contract, but we'd have a championship at this point. It's cliche to say defense wins championships, but honestly, offense does, and the stats bear that out.

My hope is that we keep DA, and that DA puts in the work to be great offensively. But it's such a huge gamble, so I don't blame any team for not thinking he's a max player because he really hasn't shown offensively that he is. But if he can put the offense part of his game together, I think that puts us in contention (and maybe a better backup PG).
Agreed to that part in bold.

To your other point about his defense, I agree it is under-rated, but for me that only holds up on the perimeter. He is great for a guy his size at staying with a guy and moving laterally. But he doesn't challenge shots out there or at the rim. I mean Melo had more blocks than he did last year. Melo! 37 year old Melo that played the same minutes as him.

McGee played like half the minutes and had over twice the blocks. I know blocks are not as meaningful as people try and make them, but it is a sign of aggressiveness on the defensive end. And he just doesn't have that.

He has so much skill, and almost zero aggression on the court.

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Split T
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Split T »

Here are the stats of the 5 centers who played for us this season on a per 100 basis:

1. 20/16/2/1/3
2. 28/20/2/1/3
3. 25/11/4/2/2
4. 28/17/2/1/1
5. 25/16/1/1/2

C is the easiest position to find players who can put up stats. You only pay the ones who stand out and are special. Which of those 5 are special?

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JeremyG
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:49 am
wpmiller42 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:05 am
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm


In other words, the Suns are delusional idiots. And when they add on “…because of Chris Paul” they’re deluding themselves even more. The dude is 38 years old next postseason.

Oh and does that quote apply to the playoffs or only the regular season? Again, idiotic line of thinking if that’s really how the Suns are planning their future.
It seems like Windhorst is behind a bunch of these "quotes" that paint the Suns front office in a negative light, so I'm guessing there's some connection with DA's camp there.

Anyways, that's sort of besides the point. I love DA, and I want to keep him on the team and I want him to develop into the dominant force I think he can be, but that's the big question, right? Defensively, I think he's got a great basketball IQ, and I really think he's underrated on how great a defensive player he is. But there are a bunch of really good centers out there that we could get that might not be as great as DA, but serviceable enough.

To me, the question is offensively. It's not about touches, he gets those. But as great as his defensive bball IQ is, his offensive bball IQ is really suspect. He doesn't take advantage of mismatches, he's an average passer at best, doesn't get to the free throw line... I mean, there are a ton of really legitimate criticisms that can be made. And it's a gamble on if he's going to put the work in to be a great, max level, offensive player.

I really believe that if the traits were reversed, DA's offense was as good as his defense and vice versa, not only would DA have his max contract, but we'd have a championship at this point. It's cliche to say defense wins championships, but honestly, offense does, and the stats bear that out.

My hope is that we keep DA, and that DA puts in the work to be great offensively. But it's such a huge gamble, so I don't blame any team for not thinking he's a max player because he really hasn't shown offensively that he is. But if he can put the offense part of his game together, I think that puts us in contention (and maybe a better backup PG).
Agreed to that part in bold.

To your other point about his defense, I agree it is under-rated, but for me that only holds up on the perimeter. He is great for a guy his size at staying with a guy and moving laterally. But he doesn't challenge shots out there or at the rim. I mean Melo had more blocks than he did last year. Melo! 37 year old Melo that played the same minutes as him.

McGee played like half the minutes and had over twice the blocks. I know blocks are not as meaningful as people try and make them, but it is a sign of aggressiveness on the defensive end. And he just doesn't have that.

He has so much skill, and almost zero aggression on the court.
You’re forgetting that at least half of his blocks don’t show up in the box score. :lol:

Also, for every block he gets, he alters 2 or 3 additional shots.

To compare his rim protection to Melo is absurd. Just watch the games and see his impact.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:06 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:49 am
wpmiller42 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:05 am
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm


In other words, the Suns are delusional idiots. And when they add on “…because of Chris Paul” they’re deluding themselves even more. The dude is 38 years old next postseason.

Oh and does that quote apply to the playoffs or only the regular season? Again, idiotic line of thinking if that’s really how the Suns are planning their future.
It seems like Windhorst is behind a bunch of these "quotes" that paint the Suns front office in a negative light, so I'm guessing there's some connection with DA's camp there.

Anyways, that's sort of besides the point. I love DA, and I want to keep him on the team and I want him to develop into the dominant force I think he can be, but that's the big question, right? Defensively, I think he's got a great basketball IQ, and I really think he's underrated on how great a defensive player he is. But there are a bunch of really good centers out there that we could get that might not be as great as DA, but serviceable enough.

To me, the question is offensively. It's not about touches, he gets those. But as great as his defensive bball IQ is, his offensive bball IQ is really suspect. He doesn't take advantage of mismatches, he's an average passer at best, doesn't get to the free throw line... I mean, there are a ton of really legitimate criticisms that can be made. And it's a gamble on if he's going to put the work in to be a great, max level, offensive player.

I really believe that if the traits were reversed, DA's offense was as good as his defense and vice versa, not only would DA have his max contract, but we'd have a championship at this point. It's cliche to say defense wins championships, but honestly, offense does, and the stats bear that out.

My hope is that we keep DA, and that DA puts in the work to be great offensively. But it's such a huge gamble, so I don't blame any team for not thinking he's a max player because he really hasn't shown offensively that he is. But if he can put the offense part of his game together, I think that puts us in contention (and maybe a better backup PG).
Agreed to that part in bold.

To your other point about his defense, I agree it is under-rated, but for me that only holds up on the perimeter. He is great for a guy his size at staying with a guy and moving laterally. But he doesn't challenge shots out there or at the rim. I mean Melo had more blocks than he did last year. Melo! 37 year old Melo that played the same minutes as him.

McGee played like half the minutes and had over twice the blocks. I know blocks are not as meaningful as people try and make them, but it is a sign of aggressiveness on the defensive end. And he just doesn't have that.

He has so much skill, and almost zero aggression on the court.
You’re forgetting that at least half of his blocks don’t show up in the box score. :lol:

Also, for every block he gets, he alters 2 or 3 additional shots.

To compare his rim protection to Melo is absurd. Just watch the games and see his impact.
I am pretty sure I have watched all 48 minutes of 250 of his 271 games. I know what he can do. And he doesn't consistently scare opponents in the paint on either side of the ball.

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Split T
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Split T »



I would love Hartenstein

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Now the max-Ayton camp is blaming the score keeper and subjective statistics.
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Indy
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am


I would love Hartenstein
Same. It would likely take all of the TPMLE, so we would just have min contracts after that, right?

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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Split T »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am
Split T wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am


I would love Hartenstein
Same. It would likely take all of the TPMLE, so we would just have min contracts after that, right?
Ya..we really don’t have much ability in FA to do anything. Sign and trades can be worked out…we have contracts, but most aren’t really assets.

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Indy
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:22 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am
Split T wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am


I would love Hartenstein
Same. It would likely take all of the TPMLE, so we would just have min contracts after that, right?
Ya..we really don’t have much ability in FA to do anything. Sign and trades can be worked out…we have contracts, but most aren’t really assets.
Right. Our best assets are really only assets because they are expiring contracts. I mean besides Mikal.

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