2022 NBA Draft Thread

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Drewsprocket
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Drewsprocket »

I’d be happy if they scooped up some 2nd rounders, this team needs fresh bodies.

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Indy
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

Drewsprocket wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:11 pm
I think Payne has some value because of his contract. He at least is good for a back up PG during regular season. Maybe late first round?
Shamet? Idk. I guess I dislike him so much I don’t think I can even objectively evaluate his worth. It drives me nuts how some players move and shoot like they’re torching the other team but just can’t even stay on the floor. The guy comes of a screen at like 80 mph to shoot fading away when if he slowed it down 30% he’d have a better look.
Shamet has the capacity to get you a solid 12ppg playing more simply and getting better shots. He’s just not a #1 scoring option off the bench.
But that is exactly what they want him to do. They picked him up because they said they needed movement shooters. He shot 37% on 5 3PA a game. The only players that shot better on equal or more attempts were Book and CamJ. And he did it playing good defense.

The problem was we were all hoping for a big spark and pairing him with the big spark we already had in CamP. Cam regressed significantly, so the only backcourt player we had to rely on was Shamet, and he didn't take enough shots. CamP and CamJ (and even Frank) took more shots per game than Shamet. Also, he shot as bad as CamP on his 2s this season.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

After watching too many scouting videos I think this is probably a 4-star draft. In order of who I'd pick..

1. Paolo Banchero - This is the simplest way I could break it down. If VC, T-Mac, and Kobe were imitations of Jordan, Banchero can be that of LeBron. His size, vision, and shot making are NBA ready at 19. I believe he can be the best player in the league someday if he puts it all together. The only thing that I worry about is that he's too soft spoken. He may lack the alpha-gene.

2. Chet Holmgren - Fascinating IQ and technique that could be world class. This guy has a bag and a carry-on at 20. I don't question his will, but he's so big that I'm worried about how his body will respond when the games and travel wear him down. I think his rookie year will be a roller coaster. Long term, he's automatic All-NBA if he stays healthy.

3. Jabari Smith - He has all the tools and he comes from basketball stock so he understands the game. There's really no downside with Jabari, which I think is why a lot of projections have him going #1. He's just not as good of a ball handler and playmaker as Bachero, and he doesn't have the shot-making upside of Chet. That's really the only reason he's 3rd on my list. He's probably going to be awesome.

4. Jaden Ivey - He's the prototypical guard in the modern NBA. He has all the fundamental skills with a stout frame and elite NBA athleticism. I think his ceiling will depend on how well he develops his in-between game and if he can reliably run an offense at the point guard position. I have high expectations as he also comes from a basketball/pro-athlete family. Everyone is drooling over the top 3 guys, but I think pretty much the entire league would love to have Ivey as well.

If I were picking for the top 3 teams..

1. Orlando - Chet Holmgren: It's pretty simple, Orlando needs a brand and Chet has the highest ceiling if everything goes right. They already have Carter, Wagner, and Isaac (I guess?), so there'd be time for him to get his feet wet in the NBA physically. I think putting him right into the starting lineup for 28mpg+ out of the gate will be risky.

2. Oklahoma City - Jabari Smith: They need a second guy who can also play well off of others, and I think Smith will fit that role better than Banchero.

3. Houston - Paolo Banchero: He's a do-everything kind of prospect and Houston needs a do-everything kind of player. I'd worry a bit about the fit with Jalen Green but that's mostly because I question how long it'll take for Green to mature as a player. Will he ever be a playmaker or is he Jamal Crawford 2.0?
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Shabazz
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Shabazz »

I think you’re way too high on Banchero. He reminds me more of a rich-man’s Carlos Boozer. Very good prospect, but “best player in the league” is a massive reach. Not sure he’ll ever be a better than decent defender, either.

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Wally_West »

I really like Chet Holmgren, I think he’s going to be fantastic, multiple all-star type talent. If we weren’t worried about Chris Paul’s championship timeline and wanted to do what’s best for franchise long term, I’d be willing to trade a lot to try to draft him straight up. 3 unprotected 1st round picks and CamJ? Yep. I don’t think that’s enough to get him but I’d willing to potentially give up more depending on the deal.

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Drewsprocket
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Drewsprocket »

Indy wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:11 pm
Drewsprocket wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:11 pm
I think Payne has some value because of his contract. He at least is good for a back up PG during regular season. Maybe late first round?
Shamet? Idk. I guess I dislike him so much I don’t think I can even objectively evaluate his worth. It drives me nuts how some players move and shoot like they’re torching the other team but just can’t even stay on the floor. The guy comes of a screen at like 80 mph to shoot fading away when if he slowed it down 30% he’d have a better look.
Shamet has the capacity to get you a solid 12ppg playing more simply and getting better shots. He’s just not a #1 scoring option off the bench.
But that is exactly what they want him to do. They picked him up because they said they needed movement shooters. He shot 37% on 5 3PA a game. The only players that shot better on equal or more attempts were Book and CamJ. And he did it playing good defense.

The problem was we were all hoping for a big spark and pairing him with the big spark we already had in CamP. Cam regressed significantly, so the only backcourt player we had to rely on was Shamet, and he didn't take enough shots. CamP and CamJ (and even Frank) took more shots per game than Shamet. Also, he shot as bad as CamP on his 2s this season.
That helps the understanding of it. Yeah they needed a “bigger spark” like if he took more shots and was better in 2pt fgs too.
Do you think that means he’ll have any trade value then?

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Drewsprocket
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Drewsprocket »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:14 am
After watching too many scouting videos I think this is probably a 4-star draft. In order of who I'd pick..

1. Paolo Banchero - This is the simplest way I could break it down. If VC, T-Mac, and Kobe were imitations of Jordan, Banchero can be that of LeBron. His size, vision, and shot making are NBA ready at 19. I believe he can be the best player in the league someday if he puts it all together. The only thing that I worry about is that he's too soft spoken. He may lack the alpha-gene.

2. Chet Holmgren - Fascinating IQ and technique that could be world class. This guy has a bag and a carry-on at 20. I don't question his will, but he's so big that I'm worried about how his body will respond when the games and travel wear him down. I think his rookie year will be a roller coaster. Long term, he's automatic All-NBA if he stays healthy.

3. Jabari Smith - He has all the tools and he comes from basketball stock so he understands the game. There's really no downside with Jabari, which I think is why a lot of projections have him going #1. He's just not as good of a ball handler and playmaker as Bachero, and he doesn't have the shot-making upside of Chet. That's really the only reason he's 3rd on my list. He's probably going to be awesome.

4. Jaden Ivey - He's the prototypical guard in the modern NBA. He has all the fundamental skills with a stout frame and elite NBA athleticism. I think his ceiling will depend on how well he develops his in-between game and if he can reliably run an offense at the point guard position. I have high expectations as he also comes from a basketball/pro-athlete family. Everyone is drooling over the top 3 guys, but I think pretty much the entire league would love to have Ivey as well.

If I were picking for the top 3 teams..

1. Orlando - Chet Holmgren: It's pretty simple, Orlando needs a brand and Chet has the highest ceiling if everything goes right. They already have Carter, Wagner, and Isaac (I guess?), so there'd be time for him to get his feet wet in the NBA physically. I think putting him right into the starting lineup for 28mpg+ out of the gate will be risky.

2. Oklahoma City - Jabari Smith: They need a second guy who can also play well off of others, and I think Smith will fit that role better than Banchero.

3. Houston - Paolo Banchero: He's a do-everything kind of prospect and Houston needs a do-everything kind of player. I'd worry a bit about the fit with Jalen Green but that's mostly because I question how long it'll take for Green to mature as a player. Will he ever be a playmaker or is he Jamal Crawford 2.0?
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Indy
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

Drewsprocket wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:02 am
Indy wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:11 pm
Drewsprocket wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:11 pm
I think Payne has some value because of his contract. He at least is good for a back up PG during regular season. Maybe late first round?
Shamet? Idk. I guess I dislike him so much I don’t think I can even objectively evaluate his worth. It drives me nuts how some players move and shoot like they’re torching the other team but just can’t even stay on the floor. The guy comes of a screen at like 80 mph to shoot fading away when if he slowed it down 30% he’d have a better look.
Shamet has the capacity to get you a solid 12ppg playing more simply and getting better shots. He’s just not a #1 scoring option off the bench.
But that is exactly what they want him to do. They picked him up because they said they needed movement shooters. He shot 37% on 5 3PA a game. The only players that shot better on equal or more attempts were Book and CamJ. And he did it playing good defense.

The problem was we were all hoping for a big spark and pairing him with the big spark we already had in CamP. Cam regressed significantly, so the only backcourt player we had to rely on was Shamet, and he didn't take enough shots. CamP and CamJ (and even Frank) took more shots per game than Shamet. Also, he shot as bad as CamP on his 2s this season.
That helps the understanding of it. Yeah they needed a “bigger spark” like if he took more shots and was better in 2pt fgs too.
Do you think that means he’ll have any trade value then?
Nope. :lol:

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Shabazz
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Shabazz »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:15 am
And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:33 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:15 am
And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.
That's fair, by the numbers. His peak was just so brief. The insulting part is more about how Boozer was never really the best guy on his team nor was he ever a playmaker. I guess that could define the "rich-man's" part of your comparison, but I wouldn't overlook those two qualities so easily.
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Indy
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:23 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:33 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:15 am
And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.
That's fair, by the numbers. His peak was just so brief. The insulting part is more about how Boozer was never really the best guy on his team nor was he ever a playmaker. I guess that could define the "rich-man's" part of your comparison, but I wouldn't overlook those two qualities so easily.
The only reason he wasn't the best player in Cleveland was because they had LeBron. And he was the best player in Utah for at least his first few seasons there. Once they got Williams they probably shared that title.

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:30 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:23 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:33 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:15 am
And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.
That's fair, by the numbers. His peak was just so brief. The insulting part is more about how Boozer was never really the best guy on his team nor was he ever a playmaker. I guess that could define the "rich-man's" part of your comparison, but I wouldn't overlook those two qualities so easily.
The only reason he wasn't the best player in Cleveland was because they had LeBron. And he was the best player in Utah for at least his first few seasons there. Once they got Williams they probably shared that title.
His first year in Utah they went 26-56. He was their best player, but they were terrible. So congrats to him for that one.

Second year in Utah was Derron Williams' rookie season and they went 41-41, Boozer played in 31 games. He was never "the guy" in Utah, but shared the spot with Williams for two seasons.
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Indy
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

That is fair. I wasn't saying he was good enough to be the best player on a very good team. But that wasn't the question! :P

He was a top 5 PF for a brief time.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Shabazz »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:36 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:30 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:23 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:33 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:15 am
And I think "rich-man's Carlos Boozer" is a massive reach in the other direction. I'd go as far as him being the next Tobias Harris in the worst case scenario. A guy who could take over the game every night but only does it for a half once a week. My favorite comp for him is Chris Webber, but it's not perfect because Webber came up in a time when bigs learned to play with their back to the basket.

I simply don't see any fundamental flaws in his game. He does everything at a high level and seemed to read the college court at the same level as Cade Cunningham.
Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.
That's fair, by the numbers. His peak was just so brief. The insulting part is more about how Boozer was never really the best guy on his team nor was he ever a playmaker. I guess that could define the "rich-man's" part of your comparison, but I wouldn't overlook those two qualities so easily.
The only reason he wasn't the best player in Cleveland was because they had LeBron. And he was the best player in Utah for at least his first few seasons there. Once they got Williams they probably shared that title.
His first year in Utah they went 26-56. He was their best player, but they were terrible. So congrats to him for that one.

Second year in Utah was Derron Williams' rookie season and they went 41-41, Boozer played in 31 games. He was never "the guy" in Utah, but shared the spot with Williams for two seasons.
I think that's kind of how I see him, though. A Julius Randle/Blake Griffin type who will get you big numbers, but is more of a 1B than a 1A. It's mainly around his defense, though.

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Superbone
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Superbone »

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:09 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:36 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:30 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:23 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:33 am


Boozer was a 21-12-3 guy at his peak, so saying a "rich man's" version of that is not the insult that you're making it out to be.
That's fair, by the numbers. His peak was just so brief. The insulting part is more about how Boozer was never really the best guy on his team nor was he ever a playmaker. I guess that could define the "rich-man's" part of your comparison, but I wouldn't overlook those two qualities so easily.
The only reason he wasn't the best player in Cleveland was because they had LeBron. And he was the best player in Utah for at least his first few seasons there. Once they got Williams they probably shared that title.
His first year in Utah they went 26-56. He was their best player, but they were terrible. So congrats to him for that one.

Second year in Utah was Derron Williams' rookie season and they went 41-41, Boozer played in 31 games. He was never "the guy" in Utah, but shared the spot with Williams for two seasons.
I think that's kind of how I see him, though. A Julius Randle/Blake Griffin type who will get you big numbers, but is more of a 1B than a 1A. It's mainly around his defense, though.

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Split T
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

I also know nothing and so this means nothing, but Banchero would scare me a bit. He feels like a guy who will be good enough to feel like a star and get big contracts but won’t actually lead you anywhere.

Someone said Tobias Harris and that feels like his destiny to me. Good player if you’re not counting on him to be a cornerstone, but gonna be overpaid.

Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Chet or Jabari feel like franchise players either. But I get the sense they will fit in as super role players better. I kind of envision a modern Rashard Lewis with Jabari and a modern AK47 with Chet. Both could find themselves as 2nd or 3rd best players on a title contender.

I like Ivey too. He feels like a potential #2 to a superstar wing/big. I’d love to have him as our succession plan to CP3. I’ll be thrilled if Ayton returns him somehow.

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I've never bought into Jabari Smith being #1 despite a lot of talk about Orlando picking him. Chet has always been the only guy I've thought could be taken over Banchero.

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Indy
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:13 pm
I've never bought into Jabari Smith being #1 despite a lot of talk about Orlando picking him. Chet has always been the only guy I've thought could be taken over Banchero.

Doesn't that just mean that everyone liked the +1600 and were putting a ton of money on it so they had to move the line to not lose money on the bets if it hits?

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

That's totally what it means, but it's also an indication that Jabari Smith isn't a lock for #1 which I've seen a lot.
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