Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.

What do you think Deandre Ayton's immediate future is with the Suns?

Poll runs till Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:47 am

Suns keep him for the duration of the 2022-2023 season
6
29%
He's on the roster to start the season but is traded mid-season
2
10%
Suns trade him before the season starts
13
62%
 
Total votes: 21

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Indy
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Indy »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:08 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm
From NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm) -

"If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet."
I've totally missed this part over the course of all the discussion and I think it's a huge piece of leverage for the Suns. We know Ayton wants the max and if reports are to be believed, he wants a bigger role. I think both can be achieved if the Suns match any offer, and trade him to Brooklyn under the assumption that Ayton will be sold on playing there with a bigger role.
But matching the max offer vs what they can give him in a S&T is a difference of like 40M right?
The numbers that stick in my head are 5% raises for 4 years ($131 million). Resigning him themselves would be 8% raises for a maximum of 5 years ($177 million). $32.7 million a year vs. $35.4 million a year.
So closer to 50M.

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Superbone
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Superbone »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:11 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:08 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm
From NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm) -

"If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet."
I've totally missed this part over the course of all the discussion and I think it's a huge piece of leverage for the Suns. We know Ayton wants the max and if reports are to be believed, he wants a bigger role. I think both can be achieved if the Suns match any offer, and trade him to Brooklyn under the assumption that Ayton will be sold on playing there with a bigger role.
But matching the max offer vs what they can give him in a S&T is a difference of like 40M right?
The numbers that stick in my head are 5% raises for 4 years ($131 million). Resigning him themselves would be 8% raises for a maximum of 5 years ($177 million). $32.7 million a year vs. $35.4 million a year.
So closer to 50M.
Even closer to 46M. ;)
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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The Bobster
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by The Bobster »

8% raises over 4 years would be $136.6 million or $34.2 million a year, so if you discount the fifth season (which is about $40 million) it's a little under $6 million difference.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Indy
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Indy »

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:21 pm
8% raises over 4 years would be $136.6 million or $34.2 million a year, so if you discount the fifth season (which is about $40 million) it's a little under $6 million difference.
THat is a good point. I wonder how much he thinks he will be a max player at the end of his 2nd contract.

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm
From NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm) -

"If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet."
I've totally missed this part over the course of all the discussion and I think it's a huge piece of leverage for the Suns. We know Ayton wants the max and if reports are to be believed, he wants a bigger role. I think both can be achieved if the Suns match any offer, and trade him to Brooklyn under the assumption that Ayton will be sold on playing there with a bigger role.
But matching the max offer vs what they can give him in a S&T is a difference of like 40M right?
IIRC, you can no longer give the player more money or years than the team aquiring him can offer.

And to answer the poll question, he's gone. They aren't going to keep him on the roster after the relationship is destroyed. JJ part 2.

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Superbone
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Superbone »

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:43 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm
From NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm) -

"If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet."
I've totally missed this part over the course of all the discussion and I think it's a huge piece of leverage for the Suns. We know Ayton wants the max and if reports are to be believed, he wants a bigger role. I think both can be achieved if the Suns match any offer, and trade him to Brooklyn under the assumption that Ayton will be sold on playing there with a bigger role.
But matching the max offer vs what they can give him in a S&T is a difference of like 40M right?
IIRC, you can no longer give the player more money or years than the team aquiring him can offer.

And to answer the poll question, he's gone. They aren't going to keep him on the roster after the relationship is destroyed. JJ part 2.
Destroyed? Those are strong words. Like I said earlier, frustration in the heat of battle is totally normal with these guys. There is nothing that can't be repaired.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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The Bobster
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by The Bobster »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:58 pm
Destroyed? Those are strong words. Like I said earlier, frustration in the heat of battle is totally normal with these guys. There is nothing that can't be repaired.
"Time wounds all heels."

If they let him get away for nothing they also lose his salary slot since they're operating over the cap.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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carey
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by carey »

I think he stays, but I think that's a problem. I don't think you can go out like that in a game 7 on your home floor and run back essentially the same group. That's an awful big black cloud to be hanging over the team all season.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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ShelC
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by ShelC »

Game 7 is over. They can move on and start fresh next season with the same group. The issue of our bench production still remains tho.

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Wormwood
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Wormwood »

It looks like Detroit has moved on from having the cap space to offer Ayton the max. San Antonio could do it... if they do some roster cutting. Flex seems to think San Antonio is the one the Suns are most likely to do a deal with. James Jones is saying all kinds of ambiguous things, but I suspect he mostly wants to avoid losing draft picks for giving the appearance of tampering.

I think the Suns, at this point, would prefer a S&T. Ayton has been a pain in their butts. He was never a James Jones guy. However, I also get the sense they'd rather keep him than give him away. They'll likely match a 4/$130 offer sheet if there's only a pu-pu platter S&T offer on the table. If they do S&T Ayton, they need sufficient assets to get a deal for Durant done.

And yeah, I think there's something a little less than a 50-50 chance Durant ends up in Phoenix. There's enough smoke there that I think the fire is real.

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by JeremyG »

Wormwood wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:18 am
It looks like Detroit has moved on from having the cap space to offer Ayton the max. San Antonio could do it... if they do some roster cutting. Flex seems to think San Antonio is the one the Suns are most likely to do a deal with. James Jones is saying all kinds of ambiguous things, but I suspect he mostly wants to avoid losing draft picks for giving the appearance of tampering.

I think the Suns, at this point, would prefer a S&T. Ayton has been a pain in their butts. He was never a James Jones guy. However, I also get the sense they'd rather keep him than give him away. They'll likely match a 4/$130 offer sheet if there's only a pu-pu platter S&T offer on the table. If they do S&T Ayton, they need sufficient assets to get a deal for Durant done.

And yeah, I think there's something a little less than a 50-50 chance Durant ends up in Phoenix. There's enough smoke there that I think the fire is real.
Since when has he ever cared about losing draft picks? :P

If Durant wants to come here, he can force his way here. We don’t need to give up Ayton to get him.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Mori Chu »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:08 am
If Durant wants to come here, he can force his way here. We don’t need to give up Ayton to get him.
What exactly would we give up to get KD without giving up Ayton? There's no way Brooklyn would take a puu-puu platter of guys like Crowder, Payne, Craig, Saric, Cam Johnson, etc. for their superstar, even if he asks out.

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by JeremyG »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:43 am
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:08 am
If Durant wants to come here, he can force his way here. We don’t need to give up Ayton to get him.
What exactly would we give up to get KD without giving up Ayton? There's no way Brooklyn would take a puu-puu platter of guys like Crowder, Payne, Craig, Saric, Cam Johnson, etc. for their superstar, even if he asks out.
I mean it works for the Lakers every time.

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TOO
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by TOO »

ShelC wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:38 am
Game 7 is over. They can move on and start fresh next season with the same group. The issue of our bench production still remains tho.
This team cannot go into next season without a shakeup. It desperately needs a guy who can pressure the rim, a better 4, and bench lengthening.

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by wpmiller42 »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:43 am
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:08 am
If Durant wants to come here, he can force his way here. We don’t need to give up Ayton to get him.
What exactly would we give up to get KD without giving up Ayton? There's no way Brooklyn would take a puu-puu platter of guys like Crowder, Payne, Craig, Saric, Cam Johnson, etc. for their superstar, even if he asks out.
If I was the Nets, I'd probably ask for Cam Johnson and then as many expiring contracts and 1st round picks as allowed, because after Kyrie and KD leave, you're basically in rebuilding mode at that point. And I think they'd probably actively look to move Simmons too.

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Shabazz
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Shabazz »

There is no way we get KD without Ayton being involved. Sorry, not going to happen. In fact, it likely costs us both Ayton and Mikal (although I'd push hard for it to be Ayton, Cam, filler and picks).

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by JeremyG »

Shabazz wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:16 am
There is no way we get KD without Ayton being involved. Sorry, not going to happen. In fact, it likely costs us both Ayton and Mikal (although I'd push hard for it to be Ayton, Cam, filler and picks).
If we had to give up Ayton and Bridges why would KD even want to still come here? That makes us worse than last season, especially when you factor in CP3’s age. If we are the only team on his list, the Nets will accommodate him.

And from the Suns side of things, CP3 and KD are only going to decline each year, while Ayton and Bridges are going to improve each year.

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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by TOO »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:23 am
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:16 am
There is no way we get KD without Ayton being involved. Sorry, not going to happen. In fact, it likely costs us both Ayton and Mikal (although I'd push hard for it to be Ayton, Cam, filler and picks).
If we had to give up Ayton and Bridges why would KD even want to still come here? That makes us worse than last season, especially when you factor in CP3’s age. If we are the only team on his list, the Nets will accommodate him.

And from the Suns side of things, CP3 and KD are only going to decline each year, while Ayton and Bridges are going to improve each year.
Age is the legitimate concern, but if we go by Jones' recent comments, I don't think that deters him.

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Indy
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:23 am
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:16 am
There is no way we get KD without Ayton being involved. Sorry, not going to happen. In fact, it likely costs us both Ayton and Mikal (although I'd push hard for it to be Ayton, Cam, filler and picks).
If we had to give up Ayton and Bridges why would KD even want to still come here? That makes us worse than last season, especially when you factor in CP3’s age. If we are the only team on his list, the Nets will accommodate him.

And from the Suns side of things, CP3 and KD are only going to decline each year, while Ayton and Bridges are going to improve each year.
I will take the next two years of KD's career over the next 2 years of ANYONE's career on this current team. The comparison seems so silly.

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specialsauce
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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

Post by specialsauce »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:47 am
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:23 am
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:16 am
There is no way we get KD without Ayton being involved. Sorry, not going to happen. In fact, it likely costs us both Ayton and Mikal (although I'd push hard for it to be Ayton, Cam, filler and picks).
If we had to give up Ayton and Bridges why would KD even want to still come here? That makes us worse than last season, especially when you factor in CP3’s age. If we are the only team on his list, the Nets will accommodate him.

And from the Suns side of things, CP3 and KD are only going to decline each year, while Ayton and Bridges are going to improve each year.
I will take the next two years of KD's career over the next 2 years of ANYONE's career on this current team. The comparison seems so silly.
But where do we end up two years from now? Bridges and DA will be in their primes and we’ll continue to either compete or have tradeable assets. KD, CP3 will be albatross contracts and we’ll be left to start over like Brooklyn is now and LA.

I guess the question becomes will we really go all out to try and win-now.

If the answer is KD on this current roster minus 2/3 of DA, Cam and Mikal- we’re not any better off and in two years we’re worse.

If we get KD, we better pay and go all out getting creative to add some serious talent around CP3 Book and Kd

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