Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?

[TOO]

People are placing value on Ayton like he is a #1 pick still oozing potential but we pretty much know what he is now. We also see what kind of Cs are winning chips and getting to the finals. He just isn’t valuable like that anymore. It’s not his fault he wants to be a ball dominant C in a league that’s moving away from that. He showed up two decades too late to be a max or super max guy. Alas…

Yeah, that was so many years ago that Cs in the mold of Ayton were getting to the Finals…

…oh wait it was only 11.5 months ago that Ayton did it himself.

Yep, people quckly forgot how good Ayton was on the road to the finals last year. But hey, that won`t change anytime soon if DA somehow stays in the Valley, I get the point the fair share of our fans have some vendetta against him, its Shaq or bust for them. If he dont average 30ppg - 15 rpg - 2.5 bpg they wont be satisfied.

Its better for DA to move on from here but I am curious to see reaction on Suns message boards next season when we regularly getting killed on the glass and on the switch. It wont be pretty.

The problem with Ayton is he thinks he's the guy in your avatar and wants to be paid like it, but his play doesn't back it up. It's simple really, he doesn't need to put up Shaq numbers, he just needs to show some assertiveness and aggression on the offensive end to show he can be the guy. Its 3 years in and he hasn't done that, he's soft and pushed around by smaller players, boxed out by guards, fumbles easy passes, blows easy and-1 dunks because he'd rather lay it up. He's a very good player, but he's not a max guy.

You’re right, he’s not Amare. Amare didn’t play defense or rebound.

And he was still twice the player Ayton is.

[JeremyG]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

You mean like this and-1 over Luka where they also gave him a tech for it? (Video: https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID= ... )&sct=plot)

[TOO]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

You mean like this and-1 over Luka where they also gave him a tech for it? (Video: https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID= ... )&sct=plot)

If this was a regular occurrence he gets paid the max, that's the problem.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

I really think we discovered the reason he had those games so often. Hard to put forth 100% effort when you only slept 2 hours.

And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Ayton is proud of that “achievement” and feels superiority about being the only NBA player with Legend status, instead of wonder why it would be. If neither him or his circle can discern that it actually is a terrible way to conduct his real NBA career, once he starts to lose the naturally endurance that comes from being a 20 something people, we are going to see him lose games by different issues, not just sleep deprivation.

Anyone can relate about what we could do at that age, either pulling all-nighters for a school exam, playing 8 hours non stop on the park, or drinking amounts of alcohol unthinkable today and still be capable to “function” the next day or later on the week. But we were not high performance athletes playing with and going against other elite athletes on a multi billion business, so what we thought “functionality” back in the day, is not even a grasp of what Ayton is required to after only two hours of sleep. Neither him or his circle understands this as well, showing up on time seems to be his bar.

My point is, that this single incident paints him full body. He looks at his NBA career as the JOB that enables him to pay the bills, and his priorities are somewhere else, like playing video games. Many people act that way, dragging their feet all week long at the office, producing just enough to get by, and proceed to use their energy partying, parenting, traveling etc. He wants his cake and eat it too, slacking all his way to a max contract, because he is that naturally gifted and put enough work to be a superior player on the court. No wonder why he avoids contact, it’s a lot of risk for his business and “too much to ask” from the company, the same way nobody likes the holidays assignments on our job. He could be great, but given that he only needs to be superior to get paid, that’s his target. Many of us can relate to some coworker like this.

That’s his mindset, and probably the root of those fights on the locker room between him and the teammates and coaches that are actually trying to win, not just walk to the next contract without even a bruise.

Yeah, let’s give the Max to the slacker of the office, that surely will go well.

[JeremyG]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

I really think we discovered the reason he had those games so often. Hard to put forth 100% effort when you only slept 2 hours.

And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Ayton is proud of that “achievement” and feels superiority about being the only NBA player with Legend status, instead of wonder why it would be. If neither him or his circle can discern that it actually is a terrible way to conduct his real NBA career, once he starts to lose the naturally endurance that comes from being a 20 something people, we are going to see him lose games by different issues, not just sleep deprivation.

Anyone can relate about what we could do at that age, either pulling all-nighters for a school exam, playing 8 hours non stop on the park, or drinking amounts of alcohol unthinkable today and still be capable to “function” the next day or later on the week. But we were high performance athletes playing with and going against other elite athletes on a multi billion business, so what we thought “functionality” back in the day, is not even a grasp of what Ayton is required to after only two hours of sleep. Neither him or his circle understands this as well, showing up on time seems to be his bar.

My point is, that this single incident paints him full body. He looks at his NBA career as the JOB that enables him to pay the bills, and his priorities are somewhere else, like playing video games. Many people act that way, dragging their feet all week long at the office, producing just enough to get by, and proceed to use their energy partying, parenting, traveling etc. He wants his cake and eat it too, slacking all his way to a max contract, because he is that naturally gifted and put enough work to be a superior player on the court. No wonder why he avoids contact, it’s a lot of risk for his business and “too much to ask” from the company, the same way nobody likes the holidays assignments on our job. He could be great, but given that he only needs to be superior to get paid, that’s his target. Many of us can relate to some coworker like this.

That’s his mindset, and probably the root of those fights on the locker room between him and the teammates and coaches that are actually trying to win, not just walk to the next contract without even a bruise.

Yeah, let’s give the Max to the slacker of the office, that surely will go well.

Lol, that's a lot of assuming just from one fact. Maybe he just doesn't realize how important sleep is. Maybe he just needs a sit down with the team physician.

[Indy]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

I really think we discovered the reason he had those games so often. Hard to put forth 100% effort when you only slept 2 hours.

And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Ayton is proud of that “achievement” and feels superiority about being the only NBA player with Legend status, instead of wonder why it would be. If neither him or his circle can discern that it actually is a terrible way to conduct his real NBA career, once he starts to lose the naturally endurance that comes from being a 20 something people, we are going to see him lose games by different issues, not just sleep deprivation.

Anyone can relate about what we could do at that age, either pulling all-nighters for a school exam, playing 8 hours non stop on the park, or drinking amounts of alcohol unthinkable today and still be capable to “function” the next day or later on the week. But we were high performance athletes playing with and going against other elite athletes on a multi billion business, so what we thought “functionality” back in the day, is not even a grasp of what Ayton is required to after only two hours of sleep. Neither him or his circle understands this as well, showing up on time seems to be his bar.

My point is, that this single incident paints him full body. He looks at his NBA career as the JOB that enables him to pay the bills, and his priorities are somewhere else, like playing video games. Many people act that way, dragging their feet all week long at the office, producing just enough to get by, and proceed to use their energy partying, parenting, traveling etc. He wants his cake and eat it too, slacking all his way to a max contract, because he is that naturally gifted and put enough work to be a superior player on the court. No wonder why he avoids contact, it’s a lot of risk for his business and “too much to ask” from the company, the same way nobody likes the holidays assignments on our job. He could be great, but given that he only needs to be superior to get paid, that’s his target. Many of us can relate to some coworker like this.

That’s his mindset, and probably the root of those fights on the locker room between him and the teammates and coaches that are actually trying to win, not just walk to the next contract without even a bruise.

Yeah, let’s give the Max to the slacker of the office, that surely will go well.

Lol, that's a lot of assuming just from one fact. Maybe he just doesn't realize how important sleep is. Maybe he just needs a sit down with the team physician.

pot, meet kettle.

And you really think that Ayton, a professional athlete that has been paid to play basketball for the last 5 years, needs a sit down with a physician to learn that 2 hours of sleep isn't enough?

[carey]

Y'all are missing the point. Ayton made it to the finals but not playing like the way he wants to play, with the ball going through the C spot allowing him to "do more" as he is fond of saying. I thought I had made myself more clear. I wouldn't classify myself as an Ayton hater just because I don't think his game is worth the max.

[Indy]

If Ayton said "I need to find ways to stay engaged 100% of the time, and I am happy to be part of a winning program even if that means I don't get more shots than anyone else" I would be happy to pay him $30M a year to stay here and be our starting center.

I feel like those of us on here that have accepted Ayton doesn't want to be here playing the way he has the last few years are being seen as Ayton haters. I think Ayton is a top 10 center in the league, and I love that we have someone on the team that is so efficient when he gets the ball in his spot and is so good on defense. My issue is that he isn't always engaged, needs his teammates and coaches to motivate him to play hard, and still thinks he is a max player in this league. That just isn't the case.

[JeremyG]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

I really think we discovered the reason he had those games so often. Hard to put forth 100% effort when you only slept 2 hours.

And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Ayton is proud of that “achievement” and feels superiority about being the only NBA player with Legend status, instead of wonder why it would be. If neither him or his circle can discern that it actually is a terrible way to conduct his real NBA career, once he starts to lose the naturally endurance that comes from being a 20 something people, we are going to see him lose games by different issues, not just sleep deprivation.

Anyone can relate about what we could do at that age, either pulling all-nighters for a school exam, playing 8 hours non stop on the park, or drinking amounts of alcohol unthinkable today and still be capable to “function” the next day or later on the week. But we were high performance athletes playing with and going against other elite athletes on a multi billion business, so what we thought “functionality” back in the day, is not even a grasp of what Ayton is required to after only two hours of sleep. Neither him or his circle understands this as well, showing up on time seems to be his bar.

My point is, that this single incident paints him full body. He looks at his NBA career as the JOB that enables him to pay the bills, and his priorities are somewhere else, like playing video games. Many people act that way, dragging their feet all week long at the office, producing just enough to get by, and proceed to use their energy partying, parenting, traveling etc. He wants his cake and eat it too, slacking all his way to a max contract, because he is that naturally gifted and put enough work to be a superior player on the court. No wonder why he avoids contact, it’s a lot of risk for his business and “too much to ask” from the company, the same way nobody likes the holidays assignments on our job. He could be great, but given that he only needs to be superior to get paid, that’s his target. Many of us can relate to some coworker like this.

That’s his mindset, and probably the root of those fights on the locker room between him and the teammates and coaches that are actually trying to win, not just walk to the next contract without even a bruise.

Yeah, let’s give the Max to the slacker of the office, that surely will go well.

Lol, that's a lot of assuming just from one fact. Maybe he just doesn't realize how important sleep is. Maybe he just needs a sit down with the team physician.

pot, meet kettle.

And you really think that Ayton, a professional athlete that has been paid to play basketball for the last 5 years, needs a sit down with a physician to learn that 2 hours of sleep isn't enough?

It's possible he's always been used to getting very little sleep and thinks he can handle it. I'm saying it's possible. I'm not making assumptions.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Jeremy, you are so entrenched on winning the argument, on twisting to your favor every chance others people gives on their redacting, that you lose sight of the big picture, the TEAM picture. If this was boxing, it would be entirely Ayton’s problem how he handles himself and his habits, but this is a team venture. You, me, everyone here knows that Barkley costs the Suns a championship because of his terrible habits, and then he started to suffer injuries because his lack of discipline. IT’S THE SAME THING HERE, only on a less grotesque way, but video games addiction is a real thing and to boot, Ayton lacks the drive players like Barkley had because stepping on a court IS A JOB for him, not a dream nor a privilege.

The front knows this all the better, the coaches and his teammates. They we’re trying to push him towards greatness and make him mature. Maybe he “gets it” later, but right now you are giving the max to a guy that thinks he already earned it so he can relax and enjoy his money for a couple years, he is not pushing it to the next level, just will continue to produce whatever he can without any risk of harm, injury or losing his Legend status.

But in order to achieve greatness, on anything, you have to act far beyond delivering a simple job. And today’s Ayton does not see his NBA career like that.

The joke around here is that you are his agent in disguise posting here, but most likely you are related to him from college or some other circle that really loves the guy and believes that him bust his ass on his “job” every day. Many people loves their slackers, because they’re not affecting your own job. But if you are so fathomed by the guy just by see him on TV, wow, I don’t know what to say, except stop trying to drag the rest of us to your level of insanity, it’s not going to happen. Stop pushing your narrative, it’s becoming tiresome that everything have to be turned into something Ayton related. You are really interesting to read when you pull off your Ayton glasses. Sorry for being so rude, I hope you can take it constructively.

[JeremyG]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

You mean like this and-1 over Luka where they also gave him a tech for it? (Video: https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID= ... )&sct=plot)

If this was a regular occurrence he gets paid the max, that's the problem.

Amare Stoudemire dunks in 2008-09: 2.06 per game.

Deandre Ayton dunks in 2019-20: 2.18 per game.

[Indy]

lol you took Amare's worst year before getting his knee injuries (and one that was nearly half the rest of his healthy career) to compare to Ayton's best.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ya I don’t think any of us Ayton haters even care about his box score. Personally I just wanted to see consistency and some aggression. Just dribble a couple times, try and dunk on somebody’s head. Stop having those games where he’s completely invisible on the court. That trick he’d do where he’d find the slowest person on the other team and cover them in transition…that’s my least favorite move of his.

I really think we discovered the reason he had those games so often. Hard to put forth 100% effort when you only slept 2 hours.

And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Ayton is proud of that “achievement” and feels superiority about being the only NBA player with Legend status, instead of wonder why it would be. If neither him or his circle can discern that it actually is a terrible way to conduct his real NBA career, once he starts to lose the naturally endurance that comes from being a 20 something people, we are going to see him lose games by different issues, not just sleep deprivation.

Anyone can relate about what we could do at that age, either pulling all-nighters for a school exam, playing 8 hours non stop on the park, or drinking amounts of alcohol unthinkable today and still be capable to “function” the next day or later on the week. But we were high performance athletes playing with and going against other elite athletes on a multi billion business, so what we thought “functionality” back in the day, is not even a grasp of what Ayton is required to after only two hours of sleep. Neither him or his circle understands this as well, showing up on time seems to be his bar.

My point is, that this single incident paints him full body. He looks at his NBA career as the JOB that enables him to pay the bills, and his priorities are somewhere else, like playing video games. Many people act that way, dragging their feet all week long at the office, producing just enough to get by, and proceed to use their energy partying, parenting, traveling etc. He wants his cake and eat it too, slacking all his way to a max contract, because he is that naturally gifted and put enough work to be a superior player on the court. No wonder why he avoids contact, it’s a lot of risk for his business and “too much to ask” from the company, the same way nobody likes the holidays assignments on our job. He could be great, but given that he only needs to be superior to get paid, that’s his target. Many of us can relate to some coworker like this.

That’s his mindset, and probably the root of those fights on the locker room between him and the teammates and coaches that are actually trying to win, not just walk to the next contract without even a bruise.

Yeah, let’s give the Max to the slacker of the office, that surely will go well.

Lol, that's a lot of assuming just from one fact. Maybe he just doesn't realize how important sleep is. Maybe he just needs a sit down with the team physician.

You are king of assumptions, hyperbole is another way to spell Jeremy G.

It’s only a fact, but a significant one, an direct from Ayton’s mouth. There is just a single set of pictures showing Miles Bridges girlfriend being attacked, just a single police report. Therefore maybe the guy just doesn’t realize that he is doing something wrong as well.

Not sure if you truly believes that FOUR year ps have passed without physician, teammates, front office, and many more people talking him about healthy and successful habits. He just doesn’t care.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

lol you took Amare's worst year before getting his knee injuries (and one that was nearly half the rest of his healthy career) to compare to Ayton's best.

It’s just Jeremy being Jeremy, narrative above all.

[Indy]

I never expected the Ayton thread to have more passion than the "should we gut our team and trade for $40M Chris Paul" discussions.

[JeremyG]

lol you took Amare's worst year before getting his knee injuries (and one that was nearly half the rest of his healthy career) to compare to Ayton's best.

Amare had fewer dunks with Shaq there in 2008-09. Ayton had fewer dunks after Chris Paul got here.

And no, it wasn't half the rest of his healthy career. Here are Amare's last four years with Phoenix, compared to Ayton's last four years:

Amare's dunks per game:
06-07: 2.20
07-08: 2.67
08-09: 2.06
09-10: 2.28

Ayton's dunks per game:
18-19: 1.89
19-20: 2.18
20-21: 1.59
21-22: 1.64

Why is that such a big difference to everyone? It's ridiculous.

[JeremyG]

Jeremy, you are so entrenched on winning the argument, on twisting to your favor every chance others people gives on their redacting, that you lose sight of the big picture, the TEAM picture. If this was boxing, it would be entirely Ayton’s problem how he handles himself and his habits, but this is a team venture. You, me, everyone here knows that Barkley costs the Suns a championship because of his terrible habits, and then he started to suffer injuries because his lack of discipline. IT’S THE SAME THING HERE, only on a less grotesque way, but video games addiction is a real thing and to boot, Ayton lacks the drive players like Barkley had because stepping on a court IS A JOB for him, not a dream nor a privilege.

The front knows this all the better, the coaches and his teammates. They we’re trying to push him towards greatness and make him mature. Maybe he “gets it” later, but right now you are giving the max to a guy that thinks he already earned it so he can relax and enjoy his money for a couple years, he is not pushing it to the next level, just will continue to produce whatever he can without any risk of harm, injury or losing his Legend status.

But in order to achieve greatness, on anything, you have to act far beyond delivering a simple job. And today’s Ayton does not see his NBA career like that.

The joke around here is that you are his agent in disguise posting here, but most likely you are related to him from college or some other circle that really loves the guy and believes that him bust his ass on his “job” every day. Many people loves their slackers, because they’re not affecting your own job. But if you are so fathomed by the guy just by see him on TV, wow, I don’t know what to say, except stop trying to drag the rest of us to your level of insanity, it’s not going to happen. Stop pushing your narrative, it’s becoming tiresome that everything have to be turned into something Ayton related. You are really interesting to read when you pull off your Ayton glasses. Sorry for being so rude, I hope you can take it constructively.

Lol, this is an Ayton thread. If you don't want to hear about Ayton, why read this thread? In case you hadn't noticed, Ayton is the number one issue this offseason for the Suns, along with KD trade talks now.

The pushing of a "narrative" is from the Ayton haters. Once he's gone, you all will realize how important he was to the team. And you act like I'm the only one who realizes it now, when probably about 40% of the fandom outside this forum is on my side, thinking he deserves the max. In fact, 31% on Twitter said he deserved the full 5 year max:



I guess those thousand voters must all be related to him or his agent also.

[Indy]

Blaming his lack of rim pressure on Chris Paul is crazy. His FG% went up 6% by playing with Paul. That is a HUGE improvement.

And nobody cares how often he dunks, really. It is about him avoiding contact and not using his skills to dominayt the other team.

Look at what that does to your FT rate (which not only gets you free points, but also lets your team regroup, discuss strategy, and even get a breather).

Amare's worst year while in Phoenix was a 50% FT rate (FTA/FGA). Ayton's best is only half of that and that came with Chris Paul.

The year before Paul got here, his FTr was <16%.

Good luck finding other starting centers in the league with a FTr that low, much less max players.

[JeremyG]

I never expected the Ayton thread to have more passion than the "should we gut our team and trade for $40M Chris Paul" discussions.

I wouldn't consider that gutting the team, especially considering the players we traded were not part of our young core.

[Indy]

He didn't mean related by blood. He said by other circles like university or something similar. And I think you are missing that nobody here thinks Ayton is a bad player. We think he is very good! We are just disagreeing on how to move forward when all signs are pointing to a mutual interest in parting ways.