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Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:47 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:14 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:10 am
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:06 am
Or the
optimist pessimist in me thinks he has reiterated he only wants Phoenix and Brooklyn has said we can’t trade you there until Ayton is tradeable, so play nice for half a season.
Same.
What level of play from Ayton and/or KD would make you conclude that trading Ayton for KD would bring the Suns closer to a title?
In order for me to conclude that, I would have to be fully confident in KD's health--it's not necessarily a matter of level of play. But it's also a risk of trading multiple years of contending for one non-guaranteed shot at the title.
Would you trade Booker (if eligible) for KD, knowing that you have probably 1 chance at the title and that you're destroying the future of the franchise?
Trading Book for KD simply trades your best player who is also a first team all-NBA #1 option for another (albeit better) first team all-NBA #1 option. There are only a handful of those guys in the league. That wouldn't make us favorites to win the title. Trading your 3rd/4th/5th/6th and lots of picks for a top 10 player in the league does. They aren't in the same category.
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
That's how I feel with DA and KD,
even if KD is still the better player for another year or two.
It is interesting that you think Ayton will be a better player than KD in a year or two.
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
And it's obviously how many teams around the league feel about trading their young players for Durant (Raptors and Scottie Barnes, for example).
The reason other teams wouldn't offer a bigger package for KD is because KD's agent told people he didn't want to play for them.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:23 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:47 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:14 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:10 am
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:06 am
Or the
optimist pessimist in me thinks he has reiterated he only wants Phoenix and Brooklyn has said we can’t trade you there until Ayton is tradeable, so play nice for half a season.
Same.
What level of play from Ayton and/or KD would make you conclude that trading Ayton for KD would bring the Suns closer to a title?
In order for me to conclude that, I would have to be fully confident in KD's health--it's not necessarily a matter of level of play. But it's also a risk of trading multiple years of contending for one non-guaranteed shot at the title.
Would you trade Booker (if eligible) for KD, knowing that you have probably 1 chance at the title and that you're destroying the future of the franchise?
Trading Book for KD simply trades your best player who is also a first team all-NBA #1 option for another (albeit better) first team all-NBA #1 option. There are only a handful of those guys in the league. That wouldn't make us favorites to win the title. Trading your 3rd/4th/5th/6th and lots of picks for a top 10 player in the league does. They aren't in the same category.
I think it would put us right at the top as favorites or tied for favorites.
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:47 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
That's how I feel with DA and KD,
even if KD is still the better player for another year or two.
It is interesting that you think Ayton will be a better player than KD in a year or two.
I'm saying that I think it is unlikely that by the 2025 playoffs (if not 2024), KD will still be better than DA. I just don't see that happening.
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:47 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:14 am
And it's obviously how many teams around the league feel about trading their young players for Durant (Raptors and Scottie Barnes, for example).
The reason other teams wouldn't offer a bigger package for KD is because KD's agent told people he didn't want to play for them.
I don't believe that's all there was to it. I remember hearing that execs were saying it was due to his age and injury history.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:24 pm
by Cap
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:21 am
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:11 am
If we sign Cam to an extension now, can he still be traded this season?
I believe he’s still immediately trade eligible, but it triggers the base year compensation rules, so he’d count as his new contract for the team acquiring him, but only his current contract for us. Makes it harder to match salaries to trade him. Though if it’s in a big deal for KD, the higher salary amounts would make it easier.
You can’t trade players with more than four years left in their contracts, so if he signs a four-year extension he becomes trade ineligible. If he signs a three-year extension then he can still be traded.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:36 pm
by Indy
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:24 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:21 am
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:11 am
If we sign Cam to an extension now, can he still be traded this season?
I believe he’s still immediately trade eligible, but it triggers the base year compensation rules, so he’d count as his new contract for the team acquiring him, but only his current contract for us. Makes it harder to match salaries to trade him. Though if it’s in a big deal for KD, the higher salary amounts would make it easier.
You can’t trade players with more than four years left in their contracts, so if he signs a four-year extension he becomes trade ineligible. If he signs a three-year extension then he can still be traded.
How does that work for team/player options? Like is it different if it is a 3 year + 1 PO (or TO)? And is it different for PO vs TO?
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:36 pm
by Indy
Oh, and doesn't KD have 4 years left on his contract?
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:39 pm
by Split T
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:24 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:21 am
Indy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:11 am
If we sign Cam to an extension now, can he still be traded this season?
I believe he’s still immediately trade eligible, but it triggers the base year compensation rules, so he’d count as his new contract for the team acquiring him, but only his current contract for us. Makes it harder to match salaries to trade him. Though if it’s in a big deal for KD, the higher salary amounts would make it easier.
You can’t trade players with more than four years left in their contracts, so if he signs a four-year extension he becomes trade ineligible. If he signs a three-year extension then he can still be traded.
That’s not something I’ve ever heard before
Edit: found this
A team may extend and trade a player within these rules. An extension-and-trade is allowed if (i) the contract covers no more than 3 seasons (including any years remaining in the original contract), (ii) the salary in the first year of the extended term is no more than 105% of the salary in the last year of the original term, and (iii) the annual salary increases are no more than 5% of the salary in the first season covered by the extended term.
To prevent teams from getting around these limitations, teams cannot trade any player that signs an extension covering more than 3 seasons, a higher salary, or with larger annual increases for the next 6 months.
Similarly, if a team receives a player in a trade, then for the next 6 months following that trade the team cannot sign the player to an extension that would violate the limitations for an extension-and-trade transaction.
So it only applies to extensions but I kind of wonder if it doesn’t apply to rookie extensions. I’ve never heard of a trade restriction(other than BYC) connected to rookie extensions. Like was Mikal not trade eligible last year?
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:12 pm
by Superbone
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:46 pm
by AmareIsGod
At the expense of what is right. For all of the all world talent, KD has proven time and time again to be a malcontent. How long before he'd throw teammates under the bus or ask for the organization to get rid of Monty? Those are of course extremes but they aren't at all new things Durant has never done.
At what point does all world talent > all world asshole?
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:06 pm
by Split T
I don’t really think that’s true about KD…this is literally the first time he’s ever done anything like this. When has he ever shown to be a malcontent. I think people are making him guilty by association with Kyrie.
He’s never asked for a trade(until now), he’s never gotten a coach/gm fired. He always played when healthy, he never showed up out of shape. He’s just showed up and played basketball.
If he’s upset now, it’s because the nets front office didn’t keep their end of the deal in regards to Kyrie. They also traded Harden for a player that won’t play. Reports are he signed that 4 year deal with the understanding that they’d take care of Kyrie/Harden next. Hard to blame him for wanting out now. I also don’t blame the nets for moving on from Harden/Kyrie, but they should grant KD his wish if they told him they’d take care of Kyrie/Harden when KD signed that extension.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:27 pm
by SunsRIt
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:06 pm
I don’t really think that’s true about KD…this is literally the first time he’s ever done anything like this. When has he ever shown to be a malcontent. I think people are making him guilty by association with Kyrie.
He’s never asked for a trade(until now), he’s never gotten a coach/gm fired. He always played when healthy, he never showed up out of shape. He’s just showed up and played basketball.
If he’s upset now, it’s because the nets front office didn’t keep their end of the deal in regards to Kyrie. They also traded Harden for a player that won’t play. Reports are he signed that 4 year deal with the understanding that they’d take care of Kyrie/Harden next. Hard to blame him for wanting out now. I also don’t blame the nets for moving on from Harden/Kyrie, but they should grant KD his wish if they told him they’d take care of Kyrie/Harden when KD signed that extension.
Then what happened in Oklahoma City and Golden State?
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:29 pm
by Split T
He left in free agency
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:36 pm
by specialsauce
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:46 pm
At the expense of what is right. For all of the all world talent, KD has proven time and time again to be a malcontent. How long before he'd throw teammates under the bus or ask for the organization to get rid of Monty? Those are of course extremes but they aren't at all new things Durant has never done.
At what point does all world talent > all world asshole?
Time and time again?
I’m scratching my head man. I don’t even know another time other than this off-season.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:04 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:36 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:46 pm
At the expense of what is right. For all of the all world talent, KD has proven time and time again to be a malcontent. How long before he'd throw teammates under the bus or ask for the organization to get rid of Monty? Those are of course extremes but they aren't at all new things Durant has never done.
At what point does all world talent > all world asshole?
Time and time again?
I’m scratching my head man. I don’t even know another time other than this off-season.
People are trying to equate him playing out his contract and then going to a really good team in an amazing city that chose to pay him the max as a malcontent move. I mean who in their right mind would choose to live in OKC as a 20-something, black, multimillionaire?
Then his contract was up in San Fran and people bitched that he couldn't win without Steph and Dray and Klay, so he went home to the east coast and tried to build his own team. Then one guy quit on him half the time, and another guy quit on him all the time. Seems like a great opportunity to find a team of actual sickos like you are.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:02 pm
by AmareIsGod
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:04 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:36 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:46 pm
At the expense of what is right. For all of the all world talent, KD has proven time and time again to be a malcontent. How long before he'd throw teammates under the bus or ask for the organization to get rid of Monty? Those are of course extremes but they aren't at all new things Durant has never done.
At what point does all world talent > all world asshole?
Time and time again?
I’m scratching my head man. I don’t even know another time other than this off-season.
People are trying to equate him playing out his contract and then going to a really good team in an amazing city that chose to pay him the max as a malcontent move. I mean who in their right mind would choose to live in OKC as a 20-something, black, multimillionaire?
Then his contract was up in San Fran and people bitched that he couldn't win without Steph and Dray and Klay, so he went home to the east coast and tried to build his own team. Then one guy quit on him half the time, and another guy quit on him all the time. Seems like a great opportunity to find a team of actual sickos like you are.
Time will tell. Asking to fire the coach and GM doesn't happen often. He hasn't always been a happy guy, happy with success even when GS was winning. Sounds like I'm wrong and he's a happy guy that wouldn't bother disrupting a team. I still think "at the expense of what" applies. Gutting the team of young talent to shoot your shot with a team a season removed from the NBA Finals is hard for me swallow. But that's just me.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Sounds to me like Monty is playing the results, which he should be doing right now because he has to lead the players in the Suns locker room.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:56 pm
by Indy
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm
Sounds to me like Monty is playing the results, which he should be doing right now because he has to lead the players in the Suns locker room.
EXACTLY. You say "I love my guys" and not "Ooh KD is one of the best basketball player in the league--of course we are better with him!"
And he can't say much anyway, due to tampering rules.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:57 pm
by Indy
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:02 pm
Time will tell. Asking to fire the coach and GM doesn't happen often. He hasn't always been a happy guy, happy with success even when GS was winning. Sounds like I'm wrong and he's a happy guy that wouldn't bother disrupting a team. I still think "at the expense of what" applies. Gutting the team of young talent to shoot your shot with a team a season removed from the NBA Finals is hard for me swallow. But that's just me.
What young talent is worth more than KD?
And "a season removed from the NBA finals" is some pretty rose-colored-glasses shit right there.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:59 pm
by AmareIsGod
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:57 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:02 pm
Time will tell. Asking to fire the coach and GM doesn't happen often. He hasn't always been a happy guy, happy with success even when GS was winning. Sounds like I'm wrong and he's a happy guy that wouldn't bother disrupting a team. I still think "at the expense of what" applies. Gutting the team of young talent to shoot your shot with a team a season removed from the NBA Finals is hard for me swallow. But that's just me.
What young talent is worth more than KD?
And "a season removed from the NBA finals" is some pretty rose-colored-glasses shit right there.
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:28 pm
by Indy
sorry to be real
Re: Is KD coming to the Suns?
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:19 am
by TOO
AIG's signature makes me so angry lol. Ayton really thinks he's that dude, fuck.