Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.

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In2ition
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

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Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
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Shabazz
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
I don’t buy that. I think it was Hali’s reps asking the Suns not to take him since we were already set in the starting backcourt and Jones being foolish enough to comply or defaulting to the player who was excited to be in PHX (which, of course Jalen Smith was considering he was projected to go in the 20s). Hali didn’t mention the Suns as being on his “don’t draft me” list but it’s the only plausible explanation to me.
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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:54 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
I don’t buy that. I think it was Hali’s reps asking the Suns not to take him since we were already set in the starting backcourt and Jones being foolish enough to comply or defaulting to the player who was excited to be in PHX (which, of course Jalen Smith was considering he was projected to go in the 20s). Hali didn’t mention the Suns as being on his “don’t draft me” list but it’s the only plausible explanation to me.
Maybe, but as you said, Hali only mentioned two teams he didn’t want to play for, I believe it was Detroit and Washington

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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:50 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
I don’t think they promised him…just that they targeted him and weren’t prepared for a scenario where Hali fell to them. They may not have done their homework on him seeing as no one expected him to be available at our pick.

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Shabazz
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:19 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:50 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
I don’t think they promised him…just that they targeted him and weren’t prepared for a scenario where Hali fell to them. They may not have done their homework on him seeing as no one expected him to be available at our pick.
The assumption there is they did zero draft prep before the draft lottery. As depressing as our draft evaluation process is, that would surprise me.
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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:26 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:19 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:50 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
I don’t think they promised him…just that they targeted him and weren’t prepared for a scenario where Hali fell to them. They may not have done their homework on him seeing as no one expected him to be available at our pick.
The assumption there is they did zero draft prep before the draft lottery. As depressing as our draft evaluation process is, that would surprise me.
How’d you get to zero? I’m not saying they only looked at Jalen. I’m just saying they didn’t feel comfortable drafting Hali over him because they didn’t have as much info as they should. With their limited resources they spent more time on the guys they thought would be available.

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Shabazz
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:34 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:26 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:19 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:50 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:34 pm
I think it was tunnel vision. They locked onto Jalen and weren’t considering other players. Hali probably dropped and they weren’t prepared to switch course and pick him. It’s the kind of thing that happens when your scouting/draft department is so small.
Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
I don’t think they promised him…just that they targeted him and weren’t prepared for a scenario where Hali fell to them. They may not have done their homework on him seeing as no one expected him to be available at our pick.
The assumption there is they did zero draft prep before the draft lottery. As depressing as our draft evaluation process is, that would surprise me.
How’d you get to zero? I’m not saying they only looked at Jalen. I’m just saying they didn’t feel comfortable drafting Hali over him because they didn’t have as much info as they should. With their limited resources they spent more time on the guys they thought would be available.
I'm sorry, but that's insane.
Targets: KD, Schroder, Micic, Favors, Kemba, Bembry, Paschall, Watanabe, Avdija, Keita BD, K. Hayes, J. Isaac, Jalen Johnson, K. Lewis, Maledon, Metu, Olynyk, Quickley, P. Reed, JRE, J Vanderbilt, Aaron Wiggins

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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

Ok, I mean did you read the article about the draft from James Jones? They even said in it they target 6-8 guys they consider draftable. James Jones came back to try and backtrack on that statement, but it didn’t look good.

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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:38 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:34 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:26 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:19 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:50 pm


Are you saying that they made a promise to Jalen to pick him, because they thought that Haliburton wasn't going to be available and couldn't go back on it?

If that's the case, they never learned anything from the Casey Jacobson or Iggy drafts.
I don’t think they promised him…just that they targeted him and weren’t prepared for a scenario where Hali fell to them. They may not have done their homework on him seeing as no one expected him to be available at our pick.
The assumption there is they did zero draft prep before the draft lottery. As depressing as our draft evaluation process is, that would surprise me.
How’d you get to zero? I’m not saying they only looked at Jalen. I’m just saying they didn’t feel comfortable drafting Hali over him because they didn’t have as much info as they should. With their limited resources they spent more time on the guys they thought would be available.
I'm sorry, but that's insane.
I have to agree. There is no way they didn't know enough about Haliburton to take him. I think it was a combo of some draft intel saying he didn't want to be here, and Jones thinking he is the smartest man in the room.
Last edited by Indy on Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:46 pm
Ok, I mean did you read the article about the draft from James Jones? They even said in it they target 6-8 guys they consider draftable. James Jones came back to try and backtrack on that statement, but it didn’t look good.
He also said they rate every single guy in the draft, but then narrow it down to who they think will be available. They would have had intel on Haliburton.

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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:47 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:46 pm
Ok, I mean did you read the article about the draft from James Jones? They even said in it they target 6-8 guys they consider draftable. James Jones came back to try and backtrack on that statement, but it didn’t look good.
He also said they rate every single guy in the draft, but then narrow it down to who they think will be available. They would have had intel on Haliburton.
Ya that was the backtracking comment I talked about. And again, I’m not saying they had no intel on Haliburton. I’m just saying they didn’t have enough to take him when he slipped.

Look, none of us really know what happened…maybe Haliburton lied when he said he didn’t tell Phoenix not to draft him, or maybe Jones just didn’t think he was good. Or maybe there’s some other reason. I still don’t think it’s that crazy to think we weren’t fully prepared. We all know how little our scouting team is and how much James Jones doesn’t really care about the draft.

Remember when Kawhi slid and teams just kept passing? Wasn’t the reason we passed on him because he sweat during his interview? I know that wasn’t James Jones, but
GM’s make bad decisions all the time. I think it’s definitely plausible we were locked in on Jalen and when Hali slipped, James Jones decided to stay the course because they didn’t work him out and didn’t have as much info on him as they’d like to make them feel comfortable drafting him.

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ShelC
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by ShelC »

Monty said they thought Stix could develop into a Jerami Grant type. That's a blatant misevaluation. Whether that's on the scouts or Monty seeing what he wanted in a prospect and JJ going along with it, we don't know. IIRC, Baynes, Saric and Frank were FAs and all similarly limited athletically so they probably focused on more athletic bigs and Stix, with his outside shot, seemed like a great idea.

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Split T
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Split T »

Yep and it tells me they didn’t even do enough evaluation on the guy they picked.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Mori Chu »

Nailing the Cam Johnson pick hurt us with Stix. Jones decided he was a draft savant based on a sample size of 1 and decided Stix was another diamond in the rough. He wasn't totally wrong; I do think Stix is a nice NBA player. But Jones was too proud to draft the much better guy who fell to us because he had already fallen in love with the storyline of shocking everybody again and finding "his guy." Well, this time he blew it.

JeremyG
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by JeremyG »

He didn't just blow the pick once. He blew the pick twice. He should have kept Stix.

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Superbone
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Superbone »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:12 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:15 am
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:35 am
We have to have the most blown 2-0 leads in NBA history right?
We were down 0-2 against both the Bulls and Celtics.
Yeah but then we've had two different sets of back-to-back years of blown 2-0 leads. So that's at least 4 in franchise history, not sure if I'm missing any others.
Sorry, I was thinking you said Finals for some reason.
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JeremyG
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by JeremyG »

I wonder if Ayton’s contract has a “sleep clause” that requires him to get 8 hours of sleep per night. :P

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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by Superbone »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:31 pm
I wonder if Ayton’s contract has a “sleep clause” that requires him to get 8 hours of sleep per night. :P
I hope it does! Tough to enforce though.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

JeremyG
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Re: Ayton agrees to offer sheet with Indiana

Post by JeremyG »

Superbone wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:28 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:31 pm
I wonder if Ayton’s contract has a “sleep clause” that requires him to get 8 hours of sleep per night. :P
I hope it does! Tough to enforce though.
They can track it on a FitBit or something, like the Cardinals are tracking Murray's tablet. :P

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