Around the League: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)

[Superbone]

I like to talk about the growth and development of players. It’s not just did they win the title or not for me. I also enjoy the nba as a whole and find this current suns team much better to watch than those years of atrocity in the 2010’s.

That being said, of course I want to win the title and I don’t think this team has a realistic shot. We need to make a move and I think we need to make a big one. Eric Gordon won’t do it. So I’ll let my frustrations be known in that department and don’t blame anyone for being down on this team and their chances without making moves.

On some level, I wouldn't have minded if we had struggled a little initially. I'm worried that the powers that be learn the wrong lessons from this continued regular season success ("Aaron Holiday should do the trick!") when recent playoff history should be our guiding light.

This hits the nail on the head. For some of us, it's just depressing seeing us win all of our games, becaue we know it means the team won't win the championship.

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

[JeremyG]

On some level, I wouldn't have minded if we had struggled a little initially. I'm worried that the powers that be learn the wrong lessons from this continued regular season success ("Aaron Holiday should do the trick!") when recent playoff history should be our guiding light.

This hits the nail on the head. For some of us, it's just depressing seeing us win all of our games, becaue we know it means the team won't win the championship.

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

[Split T]

This hits the nail on the head. For some of us, it's just depressing seeing us win all of our games, becaue we know it means the team won't win the championship.

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

[TOO]

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

But that's what they've been doing since the Bucks series, how many years of sitting there running it back is ok?

[Flagrant Fowl]

There’s one realistic significant upgrade I can think of.

[Shabazz]

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

I'm not trying to complain about wins. Wins are great. But I think we all left last playoffs with the thinking that we need to upgrade our top-7 with playoff-reliable options. Cam Payne and Torrey Craig can have great regular seasons. I don't think that would make me trust them in the playoffs any more than I currently do (not a lot), but James Jones may see it differently and opt for a depth move when moving Jae instead of aiming higher.

[AmareIsGod]

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

Even worse. What if we make a bunch of moves the armchair pessimists around here are pining for and chemistry goes to shit, KD is a ballhog or gets injured and we get spanked in the 1st round or miss the playoffs? There are so many unknowns that I'm not sure why people are wanting to mess up what's currently a great thing and an improvement upon the past couple seasons through the early going. We have a better performing bench and a more diverse offense attacking the rim more. Booker is shooting a ton of FTs early on and playing at an elite level. I'm struggling to grasp what people are trying to complain about early on through our early success. It's not an exact duplication of the team and on the court play as last season. We aren't doing the exact same thing as last season, hoping for different results. It's as if players on the roster won't grow or improve and the few changes they made won't change anything at all. And that Monty Williams hasn't and won't learn anything from last season's failures.

[AmareIsGod]

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

I'm not trying to complain about wins. Wins are great. But I think we all left last playoffs with the thinking that we need to upgrade our top-7 with playoff-reliable options. Cam Payne and Torrey Craig can have great regular seasons. I don't think that would make me trust them in the playoffs any more than I currently do (not a lot), but James Jones may see it differently and opt for a depth move when moving Jae instead of aiming higher.

They are having good regular seasons this year and I'd argue they played like garbage last regular season. Their garbage regular season performance (injury related or otherwise) was a huge reason we had no gas by the Dallas series of the playoffs and got run off the court.

[Cap]

There’s one realistic significant upgrade I can think of.

Trading the non-playing Crowder for any kind of contributor would be a significant upgrade.

I don’t understand what’s going on with him. How does it benefit him or the team for him not to play?

[Superbone]

This hits the nail on the head. For some of us, it's just depressing seeing us win all of our games, becaue we know it means the team won't win the championship.

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

Got it. You're talking about outside the team. Specifically James Jones and his cohorts.

[Superbone]

If people didn't complain about the Suns what would you guys talk about? We know they aren't winning the title, Jones hasn't drafted well and doesn't seem to care about it, would you just talk about what happens in the regular season from game to game when at the end of the season it doesn't even matter? No title, no draft, just treading water year to year, good luck with that gentlemen.

It's all part of the yin and yang. No complaints here. Complaining about complaining is just as valid.

And for the record, I don't want you to change a single thing! I value your humor and sarcasm. How boring would this place be if it was just an echo chamber? I value everyone's contributions here no matter what their perspective is.

[Shabazz]

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

Even worse. What if we make a bunch of moves the armchair pessimists around here are pining for and chemistry goes to shit, KD is a ballhog or gets injured and we get spanked in the 1st round or miss the playoffs? There are so many unknowns that I'm not sure why people are wanting to mess up what's currently a great thing and an improvement upon the past couple seasons through the early going. We have a better performing bench and a more diverse offense attacking the rim more. Booker is shooting a ton of FTs early on and playing at an elite level. I'm struggling to grasp what people are trying to complain about early on through our early success. It's not an exact duplication of the team and on the court play as last season. We aren't doing the exact same thing as last season, hoping for different results. It's as if players on the roster won't grow or improve and the few changes they made won't change anything at all. And that Monty Williams hasn't and won't learn anything from last season's failures.

That's ridiculously premature. I think our team can win a title with some moves. I don't think it can as presently constructed. I just want us to make those moves.

If it turns out James Jones was just waiting for the right opportunity to strike, I'll be super happy. If he doesn't make moves because he doesn't want to mess up a "great thing," then this season will end in disappointment.

[Shabazz]

I don't want to give up a Jae/Dario/Cam package for KD, but if I'm forced to, I'll consider it.

I'm assuming it's the inclusion of Cam that gives you pause?

I was being sarcastic. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat (with either Cam).

[Cap]

I don't want to give up a Jae/Dario/Cam package for KD, but if I'm forced to, I'll consider it.

I'm assuming it's the inclusion of Cam that gives you pause?

I was being sarcastic. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat (with either Cam).

How much draft capital would you be willing to include?

[JeremyG]

Yeah, winning sucks! Only losing teams win.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

Got it. You're talking about outside the team. Specifically James Jones and his cohorts.

And the coaching staff.

[Shabazz]

I don't want to give up a Jae/Dario/Cam package for KD, but if I'm forced to, I'll consider it.

I'm assuming it's the inclusion of Cam that gives you pause?

I was being sarcastic. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat (with either Cam).

How much draft capital would you be willing to include?

If that was the package (where we keep DA and Mikal), a significant amount. I'd hope we could move Jae to a 3rd team who could provide one of the picks. But I'd do 3 picks + 3 swaps. That starting 5 would be insane.

[Split T]

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

But that's what they've been doing since the Bucks series, how many years of sitting there running it back is ok?

They brought in McGee/Shamet after the Finals lost…not exactly what I had in mind, but they didn’t completely run it back. Then that team absolutely steam rolled the regular season. Again, I think they should have made a move at the deadline to add someone like Eric Gordon last year, but I can see why they didn’t. They thought they had enough and didn’t want to move future draft capital.

This summer is a tough one to evaluate. You kinda have to give them a pass at first for waiting on the KD situation. You can’t go make moves that impact your ability to get KD. However, they’ve botched the Crowder situation quite a bit and I think there were things we could’ve done to improve the team. We didn’t even use the TPMLE and could’ve potentially acquired guys like Bruce Brown, John Wall, and I’m sure many others that signed for around that amount.

I’m still waiting to make final judgement on the roster until the deadline. I’ll get excited about the new wrinkles in the offense and the improvements from Mikal and the improved play of the bench, but I’ll be upset if this is the team that enters the playoffs.

[Superbone]

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little. It's fun to win games, but it does cause worry about how the team reacts to the regular season success.

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

Got it. You're talking about outside the team. Specifically James Jones and his cohorts.

And the coaching staff.

The coaching staff? How so?

[Cap]

I see. It's the reactions to the wins that's the problem. Are they supposed to mope? I'm not sure what you're looking for. All I've heard is that they want to continue to play their game and continue to improve on it.

React as in, "We have a great record, so we don't need to make any significant upgrades to our roster." Or, "We have a great record, so there's no need to develop our younger players any further."

We saw how that type of thinking ended up last season.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also premature. There’s 1 obvious move that’s coming and we don’t know what else. If we do nothing, then sure criticism is warranted, but what if we make the moves people are talking about? Then you complained about wins all season for nothing. I’ll enjoy the progress now and I’ll criticize later if they actually sit on their hands and do nothing.

But that's what they've been doing since the Bucks series, how many years of sitting there running it back is ok?

They brought in McGee/Shamet after the Finals lost…not exactly what I had in mind, but they didn’t completely run it back. Then that team absolutely steam rolled the regular season. Again, I think they should have made a move at the deadline to add someone like Eric Gordon last year, but I can see why they didn’t. They thought they had enough and didn’t want to move future draft capital.

This summer is a tough one to evaluate. You kinda have to give them a pass at first for waiting on the KD situation. You can’t go make moves that impact your ability to get KD. However, they’ve botched the Crowder situation quite a bit and I think there were things we could’ve done to improve the team. We didn’t even use the TPMLE and could’ve potentially acquired guys like Bruce Brown, John Wall, and I’m sure many others that signed for around that amount.

I’m still waiting to make final judgement on the roster until the deadline. I’ll get excited about the new wrinkles in the offense and the improvements from Mikal and the improved play of the bench, but I’ll be upset if this is the team that enters the playoffs.

If this is the team that enters the playoffs? You mean, if Crowder is still on the roster and not playing? Yeah, I’ll be upset with that too if it happens, but I really doubt it will.

[Split T]

Well if it’s this team plus a minor addition in a Crowder trade…can’t just be like Justin Holiday or someone similar.