Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Split T »

Luka is just Harden 2.0, nothing he’s doing hasn’t already been done before. I even saw a stat that his fg% drops pretty drastically as the game goes on. Dallas is never going to win anything playing this way.

The media just absolutely loves Luka, always has. He’s a top 5-6 guy, but he’s not on the same level as Giannis to me.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:06 am
Speaking of the Mavs, I got into a debate with a group of NBA fans here from broad backgrounds. I was surprised to find out the consensus among us was that Luka Doncic is currently the best player in the world.

I have him in the top 5, but I think Giannis is clearly #1 right now. My argument was built on Giannis being the most complete player in the world. He could easily win DPOY every year, but is essentially ineligible because he's up for the MVP.
Luka is just the most marketed player right now in the league, and I wouldn’t take him over Giannis either. If you take off super star whistle out of both of them, I think the drop off from Luka would be bigger.

That, and my personal distaste for whiney prima donnas. Is really hard for me to root for entitled whiney brats to win.

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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by specialsauce »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:25 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:06 am
Speaking of the Mavs, I got into a debate with a group of NBA fans here from broad backgrounds. I was surprised to find out the consensus among us was that Luka Doncic is currently the best player in the world.

I have him in the top 5, but I think Giannis is clearly #1 right now. My argument was built on Giannis being the most complete player in the world. He could easily win DPOY every year, but is essentially ineligible because he's up for the MVP.
Luka is just the most marketed player right now in the league, and I wouldn’t take him over Giannis either. If you take off super star whistle out of both of them, I think the drop off from Luka would be bigger.

That, and my personal distaste for whiney prima donnas. Is really hard for me to root for entitled whiney brats to win.
So you hate the Warriors then too right?

I hate em all

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Split T »

I’ve never really seen the Warriors as whiney, pre-madonna’s. They are more show-boaty. Green is a whole different issue, not a fan of him.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Mori Chu »

Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.

IMO Giannis is far and away the best player in the league. Then I'd take Jokic next. Might look to someone like Curry or KD after that, though both of those guys are getting older, so I'd give a different answer between "who would you want just for this year / who is Nth best in the league this year" vs "who would you want on your team or under contract." Then you look at guys like Embiid, Tatum, Landale, Morant, the usual suspects.

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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by specialsauce »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.

IMO Giannis is far and away the best player in the league. Then I'd take Jokic next. Might look to someone like Curry or KD after that, though both of those guys are getting older, so I'd give a different answer between "who would you want just for this year / who is Nth best in the league this year" vs "who would you want on your team or under contract." Then you look at guys like Embiid, Tatum, Landale, Morant, the usual suspects.
Fat man from Denver is so overrated. One way player, easily exposed on defense. Suns will kill him on the defensive end picking him out every year.

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by INFORMER »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:50 pm
While Harrison Barnes probably played his way out of trade consideration the last few games, I wonder if John Collins is playing his way in to it. He's been pretty quiet since a strong start to the season. I wonder if Atlanta looks at his contract as a burden at this point and we can get him for the Dario-Jae salary relief pu pu platter. I also wonder if we should want to.
I don't think Atlanta is ready to give up on him this quickly. They've always been willing to trade, but they also want a substantive return, which is why he is still a Hawk. I think they'll also want him for their offense-centric lineups where he plays the 5, especially in the playoffs when Capela gets played off the floor.

Why do you say Barnes has played his way out of trade consideration?
Max Ayton vs Role Player Ayton: 2-2

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by INFORMER »

bajanguy008 wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:28 pm
TOO wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:02 pm
How much did Dallas pay McGee to be their 10mpg starter? Surely it was too much.
Don't worry, he'll be back when Jones trades Ayton for JaVale, Dwight Powell, and Davis Bertans.
Max Ayton vs Role Player Ayton: 2-2

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by INFORMER »

Split T wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:44 am
The media just absolutely loves Luka, always has. He’s a top 5-6 guy, but he’s not on the same level as Giannis to me.
The thing I hate about Giannis is that his skills have eroded as he has gotten taller and stronger. I enjoyed watching him more earlier in his career when he couldn't just run over people. I wish officials called offensive fouls and traveling on him more often.
Max Ayton vs Role Player Ayton: 2-2

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by INFORMER »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.
While I don't think Luka is the best player in the league, this take is still ridiculous.

He got to the conference finals last year with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of role players.

His decision-making is poor and his conditioning isn't good, but it is absurd to act like just anyone could produce like him if they were given the touches. It's also silly coming from a fan of the team he absolutely torched. And by the way, he has the ball a lot because he is essentially the point guard AND the team's best scorer. Who is holding back? Tim Hardaway Jr? Dorian Finney-Smith? Please.

The narrative from the Anti-Luka crowd when Porzingis and and Brunson left is that he was holding them back because he was such a ballhog. Have you caught them with their new teams? Their new teams are mediocre at best, and they are essentially performing at the same level they were in Dallas.
Max Ayton vs Role Player Ayton: 2-2

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Split T »

INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:02 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:44 am
The media just absolutely loves Luka, always has. He’s a top 5-6 guy, but he’s not on the same level as Giannis to me.
The thing I hate about Giannis is that his skills have eroded as he has gotten taller and stronger. I enjoyed watching him more earlier in his career when he couldn't just run over people. I wish officials called offensive fouls and traveling on him more often.
Ya he for whatever reason has been given permission to just run through the everyone

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Split T »

INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:11 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.
While I don't think Luka is the best player in the league, this take is still ridiculous.

He got to the conference finals last year with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of role players.

His decision-making is poor and his conditioning isn't good, but it is absurd to act like just anyone could produce like him if they were given the touches. It's also silly coming from a fan of the team he absolutely torched. And by the way, he has the ball a lot because he is essentially the point guard AND the team's best scorer. Who is holding back? Tim Hardaway Jr? Dorian Finney-Smith? Please.

The narrative from the Anti-Luka crowd when Porzingis and and Brunson left is that he was holding them back because he was such a ballhog. Have you caught them with their new teams? Their new teams are mediocre at best, and they are essentially performing at the same level they were in Dallas.
Ya I think he went a little far. He’s very good, but I do think Dallas needs to get him help and take some usage away from him to really succeed. I think with their current roster they are playing the best way to get wins. Roster just needs some work. Think he’d benefit from a off-ball scorer type. Honestly Booker would be a seamless fit next to him.

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TOO
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by TOO »

Split T wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:41 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:11 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.
While I don't think Luka is the best player in the league, this take is still ridiculous.

He got to the conference finals last year with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of role players.

His decision-making is poor and his conditioning isn't good, but it is absurd to act like just anyone could produce like him if they were given the touches. It's also silly coming from a fan of the team he absolutely torched. And by the way, he has the ball a lot because he is essentially the point guard AND the team's best scorer. Who is holding back? Tim Hardaway Jr? Dorian Finney-Smith? Please.

The narrative from the Anti-Luka crowd when Porzingis and and Brunson left is that he was holding them back because he was such a ballhog. Have you caught them with their new teams? Their new teams are mediocre at best, and they are essentially performing at the same level they were in Dallas.
Ya I think he went a little far. He’s very good, but I do think Dallas needs to get him help and take some usage away from him to really succeed. I think with their current roster they are playing the best way to get wins. Roster just needs some work. Think he’d benefit from a off-ball scorer type. Honestly Booker would be a seamless fit next to him.
What could've been.

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Wally_West
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Wally_West »




No way in hell we can get this guy for crowder lol

Not even if we take on Robinson’s gross contract.

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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by specialsauce »

Split T wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:41 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:11 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Luka is the new Westbrook. Way too high usage guy who gets gaudy numbers but his teams can never really contend because he ballhogs too much. His defenders will point to his amazing plays, and will point to the fact that he averages a lot of assists. But that's mostly because he always has the ball and therefore can't help but rack up 8-9 assists here and there. He makes other players around him worse by denying them the ball and the chance to initiate offense. Plus he shows up fat every year (though, to be fair, less so this year). And he seems like he takes a lot of pounding and will probably have nagging injuries sooner or later.
While I don't think Luka is the best player in the league, this take is still ridiculous.

He got to the conference finals last year with Jalen Brunson and a bunch of role players.

His decision-making is poor and his conditioning isn't good, but it is absurd to act like just anyone could produce like him if they were given the touches. It's also silly coming from a fan of the team he absolutely torched. And by the way, he has the ball a lot because he is essentially the point guard AND the team's best scorer. Who is holding back? Tim Hardaway Jr? Dorian Finney-Smith? Please.

The narrative from the Anti-Luka crowd when Porzingis and and Brunson left is that he was holding them back because he was such a ballhog. Have you caught them with their new teams? Their new teams are mediocre at best, and they are essentially performing at the same level they were in Dallas.
Ya I think he went a little far. He’s very good, but I do think Dallas needs to get him help and take some usage away from him to really succeed. I think with their current roster they are playing the best way to get wins. Roster just needs some work. Think he’d benefit from a off-ball scorer type. Honestly Booker would be a seamless fit next to him.
If the league didn’t have a deal with the refs to treat him like royalty he’d be Hedo Turkoglu

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Superbone »

Hyperbole much?
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Mori Chu »

Luka is really good, but he flops and baits the refs a ton, and it earns him a bunch of his points. I wish the refs wouldn't take the bait.

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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by specialsauce »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:28 pm
Hyperbole much?
Prove me wrong!

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Split T »

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:10 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:28 pm
Hyperbole much?
Prove me wrong!
Well even if you took away all his free throws, Luka is averaging 25/9/8 this year. Turkoglu never did that. Also Hedo only had 1 year with an eFG% above Luka’s career eFG%. Hedo never had as efficient of a shooting season as Luka is now.

I think Luka is overrated, but Turkoglu was a 19/5/5 guy in his career year. Luka was 21/8/6 in his worst year as a 19 year old rookie. Turk only had 1 other year above 15 ppg.

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 4 (11/7-11/13)

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:22 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:10 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:28 pm
Hyperbole much?
Prove me wrong!
Well even if you took away all his free throws, Luka is averaging 25/9/8 this year. Turkoglu never did that. Also Hedo only had 1 year with an eFG% above Luka’s career eFG%. Hedo never had as efficient of a shooting season as Luka is now.

I think Luka is overrated, but Turkoglu was a 19/5/5 guy in his career year. Luka was 21/8/6 in his worst year as a 19 year old rookie. Turk only had 1 other year above 15 ppg.
Thanks for actually partaking in the exercise, Split. It's pretty obvious to almost everybody. :P
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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