Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

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TOO
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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by TOO »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:13 am
Who’s better: Pts/Reb/Blk

Player A: 14.6/7.6/0.6 on .588 TS%
Player B: 17.7/8.5/3.3 on .633 TS%
Just imagine how much more people would like Ayton if he put up 3blk per game.

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Superbone
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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Superbone »

I really hate to keep harping on this but Ayton is probably the only big in the league that drops this in rather than dunking it with authority.

"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Split T »

He doesn’t like to dunk for whatever reason..Maybe it hurts his hands. Doesn’t want to jam his fingers or playing NBA2K gets a lot harder.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Split T »

TOO wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:06 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:13 am
Who’s better: Pts/Reb/Blk

Player A: 14.6/7.6/0.6 on .588 TS%
Player B: 17.7/8.5/3.3 on .633 TS%
Just imagine how much more people would like Ayton if he put up 3blk per game.
He’s turned into Myles Turner without the 3pt shooting or shot blocking.

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TOO
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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by TOO »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:25 pm
TOO wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:06 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:13 am
Who’s better: Pts/Reb/Blk

Player A: 14.6/7.6/0.6 on .588 TS%
Player B: 17.7/8.5/3.3 on .633 TS%
Just imagine how much more people would like Ayton if he put up 3blk per game.
He’s turned into Myles Turner without the 3pt shooting or shot blocking.
This is some depressing shit.

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TOO
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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by TOO »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:13 pm
I really hate to keep harping on this but Ayton is probably the only big in the league that drops this in rather than dunking it with authority.

This goes back to college, it ain't changing. Finishes like he's 5'11" instead of 6'11".

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by JeremyG »

Furlanfufi wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:21 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:13 pm
TOO wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:07 pm
Nothing to complain about that half, maybe Ayton but that's just being nitpicky.
Ayton - 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 foul
Gobert & Towns - 6 points, 6 rebounds, 6 fouls
Acordding to Jeremy, Gobert and Towns are just better by the number of fouls
Never said anything remotely close to that. Show me the post.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by specialsauce »

JeremyG wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:07 pm
Furlanfufi wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:21 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:13 pm
TOO wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:07 pm
Nothing to complain about that half, maybe Ayton but that's just being nitpicky.
Ayton - 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 foul
Gobert & Towns - 6 points, 6 rebounds, 6 fouls
Acordding to Jeremy, Gobert and Towns are just better by the number of fouls
Never said anything remotely close to that. Show me the post.
Ah yes the infamous post, the area on the court where Deandres lack of testicular fortitude regularly makes a cameo

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Mori Chu »

Personally I don't really care whether Ayton dunks a ball or lays it up. They're both 2 points; I don't think the "wow" factor of a dunk gives it any more value than a layup or short jumper. What I care more about is that he stays aggressive and shoots when he should shoot (avoid Boris Diaw syndrome), that he shoots a good percentage, that he plays great defense, sets good screens, etc. And I care that the rest of the team works actively to keep him involved in the offense. I do think that's up to others as much as Ayton because we don't want our center initiating offense and driving from the 3-point line; we want our guards and swings passing him the ball in the post or after a screen.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by specialsauce »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:53 am
Personally I don't really care whether Ayton dunks a ball or lays it up. They're both 2 points; I don't think the "wow" factor of a dunk gives it any more value than a layup or short jumper. What I care more about is that he stays aggressive and shoots when he should shoot (avoid Boris Diaw syndrome), that he plays great defense, sets good screens, etc. And I care that the rest of the team works actively to keep him involved in the offense. I do think that's up to others as much as Ayton because we don't want our center initiating offense and driving from the 3-point line; we want our guards and swings passing him the ball in the post or after a screen.
If you watched the Philly game he missed at least 3 gimmes in the paint because he tried to lay it in instead of dunking. Easy dunks. It’s a problem when the guaranteed two points are lost because of it
Last edited by specialsauce on Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by ShelC »

Refs sometimes reward players going up aggressively - maybe he gets the and-1 or the foul. If he's laying it up or contorting himself to avoid contact, he's not getting the foul and sometimes misses the layup altogether.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Split T »

Ya the issue isn’t when he makes a layup, it’s when he misses the gimme layups. He probably shoots 95% on open layups when he’d shoot 99% on dunks. It’s not the biggest issue I have with him, it probably doesn’t greatly impact wins/losses, but it’s just incredibly frustrating when he does miss layups he should dunk.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Carno »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:53 am
Personally I don't really care whether Ayton dunks a ball or lays it up. They're both 2 points; I don't think the "wow" factor of a dunk gives it any more value than a layup or short jumper. What I care more about is that he stays aggressive and shoots when he should shoot (avoid Boris Diaw syndrome), that he shoots a good percentage, that he plays great defense, sets good screens, etc. And I care that the rest of the team works actively to keep him involved in the offense. I do think that's up to others as much as Ayton because we don't want our center initiating offense and driving from the 3-point line; we want our guards and swings passing him the ball in the post or after a screen.
I agree. Sure, dunks are fun. If Ayton prefers a layup over a dunk for whatever reason, I don't really case as long as it goes in. But the constant focus on it is really overdone. I get criticizing a missed layup when dunking was an option, but, at least in the most recent games, I felt like it wasn't always clear that a dunk was possible.

There's an aspect to this, though, that I can't recall anyone bringing up. Ayton's style of play is more conducive to a longer healthier career. He doesn't rely on athleticism much. He isn't wearing out his joints. Amare was great, but how long did that last?

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Split T »

I’d much rather have a shorter more productive career out of him than a longer mediocre career.

It just seems like a waste to have all that talent and athleticism and to not use it. He was picked 1st because of the potential he had. That potential significantly drops if he’s unwilling to use his athleticism and be aggressive attacking the rim.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Superbone »

Silly argument Marty that two points is two points. Except when it isn't. He misses some of those bunnies too which is the issue. He also has a better chance of turning it into three points if he were to dunk through contact. But hey, if good enough, is good enough for you, even at a max salary, then your expectations are set.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Mori Chu »

Well what I always come back to with Ayton is, yeah he drifts in games in November, but he is a monster in the playoffs and is a big part of our contending deep into the postseason. His numbers always go up and he seems to rise to the challenge of playing teams with great big men in the playoffs. I really wouldn't want to face Jokic or Embiid or Giannis without Ayton to help guard them. He can't shut those guys down, but he allows us to mostly guard them 1:1 and he mostly holds his own, while also giving us a lot offensively. I really think if you swapped him for Turner or KD or whomever, while those other guys would give us a lot, we'd sorely miss what Ayton brings in the playoff setting. There's no way we sweep the Nuggets during our Finals run without DA. I like that DA seems to get up for the postseason games that truly matter. That buys him a lot of leeway with me.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by Split T »

Ehh, he didn’t do much to slow Giannis in the finals. The Warriors just handled Jokic and the Nuggets last year with Kevon Looney at the 5. Wouldn’t it be nice if Ayton was one of those types of bigs that teams have to game plan for? Instead he did nothing as Dallas played small and defended him with Finney-Smith.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by BlaCkAdDa »

He was trash but we won so let's move on.. If he's this bad for a stretch sure let's go into detail but I'm confident hell have a bounce back game at some point

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by specialsauce »

BlaCkAdDa wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:15 pm
He was trash but we won so let's move on.. If he's this bad for a stretch sure let's go into detail but I'm confident hell have a bounce back game at some point

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It’ll be brooklyns problem soon enough

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Re: Game Day: Suns (7-3) @ Wolves (5-6), Wed 11/9/22

Post by INFORMER »

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:17 am
Vladimir_Taltos wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:16 am
Gobert - 25 Pts, 11 Reb, 3 Blks, 11 FTs
Ayton - 9 Pts, 6 Reb, 0 Blks, 2 FTs

Which looks like a max player? Notice the FTs? :roll:
Neither. That’s an easy question.

They’d both look sexy next to Jakob Poettl though.
Poeltl is a good player.
Max Ayton vs Role Player Ayton: 2-2

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