Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Superbone »

I think it's good to give him all the time he needs to get to 100%. It's good for the team to try to win without him. They're good enough to keep afloat and it will pay dividends down the road. This is the Warriors/Spurs approach I've been hoping we'd take.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by ShelC »

Problem. Solved.


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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Superbone »

Has he gotten any better?
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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TOO
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by TOO »

Superbone wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:47 pm
Has he gotten any better?
Hard to be worse than he was.

ShadowHawke
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by ShadowHawke »

TOO wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:48 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:47 pm
Has he gotten any better?
Hard to be worse than he was.
The NBA has gotten less rough.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by ShelC »

Superbone wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:40 pm
I think it's good to give him all the time he needs to get to 100%. It's good for the team to try to win without him. They're good enough to keep afloat and it will pay dividends down the road. This is the Warriors/Spurs approach I've been hoping we'd take.
I've seen some talk on social with people thinking that it's more serious, maybe an achilles thing or something. But we've had videos of him shooting at practice and before games looking normal. Not sure if he's been running or practicing tho but if he couldn't move on that foot or it was an achiiles injury I doubt he'd be doing much of anything. Hoping they're just pacing him and doing some load management throughout the season.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:47 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:31 pm
With Simmons, it's more buying low with potential to be a good fit. You'd basically be counting down until his deal is up, knowing that, if you want resign him, you'd probably get him at a half to a third of the cost; that's why I wouldn't move for him until next season. It's completely different from handing someone a brand new max contract.
I don’t know how different that is. We had to give DA a max because we can’t afford to let an asset walk away for nothing, but if DA were on another team and everyone knew what we know now about him, how many of us would be pushing to trade for him? Simmons is far worse as an asset and the chemistry issues alone makes me not want to get anywhere near him. Maybe we wait until the year he actually does cost 1/3 of his current contract first.
I don't think anyone is "pushing" for a Simmons trade. It's more just casual conversation.

And in your hypothetical, I don't think anyone would be pushing for DA (except maybe one person) because he would have more years left on his deal and he doesn't have a skillset that we would be looking for.
Don’t really want to turn this into a discussion of semantics. Yes we are just carrying a casual conversation, none of us are in a position to push for anything unless anybody here actually works for the Suns’ front office. I just can’t come up with any possible arguments to get Simmons on this roster in the next 3 years, that’s the point I’m making.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Mori Chu »

ShelC wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:59 pm
Problem. Solved.

His international stats last year were still pretty pathetic, making me think he just wasn't ever going to get to an NBA level:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/in ... der-1.html

But I just looked up his stats for the current season and they're much better. Looks like he plays for a team called Monbus Obradoiro in Spain. He's having a good season there, scoring 20+ in most of his games. No idea the level of the competition.

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/p ... nder/games

I'm probably the one last believer in Bender as an NBA player, and I would be fine with bringing him out on a flyer for a minimum contract. But I suspect most folks wouldn't want him.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Superbone »

We used to call that being on Bender island.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

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BKinSJC
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by BKinSJC »

Amazingly, Bender just barely turned 25 a few days ago, so he's still younger than a number of the guys we think of as our "young" players. I always thought he got a bad deal coming to Phoenix at the time he did, when there was seemingly so little focus on positive player development and so much "throw 'em out there and let them lose" as an institutional mindset.
ShelC wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:59 pm

... I just looked up his stats for the current season and they're much better. Looks like he plays for a team called Monbus Obradoiro in Spain. He's having a good season there, scoring 20+ in most of his games. No idea the level of the competition.

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/p ... nder/games
Looks like that's a pretty high level Euro league. The better teams in it feature a number of guys that have been bench-level NBA players, or good NBA players that are now somewhat past their prime (Mario Hezonja, Tomas Satoransky, Guerschon Yabusele, Dzanan Musa, Marc Gasol). Bender's team isn't especially good, but that doesn't change the fact that he's one of the league leaders in scoring and rebounding.

I hope he'll get another decent shot in the NBA. He was a disappointment as a teenager in Phoenix, and never really seemed to get over his shellshock entirely during his first NBA tenure, but he might be in a good place to try again now.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

pickle wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:53 am
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:47 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:31 pm
With Simmons, it's more buying low with potential to be a good fit. You'd basically be counting down until his deal is up, knowing that, if you want resign him, you'd probably get him at a half to a third of the cost; that's why I wouldn't move for him until next season. It's completely different from handing someone a brand new max contract.
I don’t know how different that is. We had to give DA a max because we can’t afford to let an asset walk away for nothing, but if DA were on another team and everyone knew what we know now about him, how many of us would be pushing to trade for him? Simmons is far worse as an asset and the chemistry issues alone makes me not want to get anywhere near him. Maybe we wait until the year he actually does cost 1/3 of his current contract first.
I don't think anyone is "pushing" for a Simmons trade. It's more just casual conversation.

And in your hypothetical, I don't think anyone would be pushing for DA (except maybe one person) because he would have more years left on his deal and he doesn't have a skillset that we would be looking for.
Don’t really want to turn this into a discussion of semantics. Yes we are just carrying a casual conversation, none of us are in a position to push for anything unless anybody here actually works for the Suns’ front office. I just can’t come up with any possible arguments to get Simmons on this roster in the next 3 years, that’s the point I’m making.
I don’t think it’s that hard to come up with a possible argumen. There’s a lot of risky stuff with him so I’d ultimately stay away, but the appeal is he’s got a ton of talent and might come pretty cheap due to the baggage. He might be figuring stuff out right now…22/8/5 tonight after a 15/13/7 game the other day.

He’s still a 6’10 240lb elite athlete, with elite perimeter defensive skills and very good ball handling and playmaking skills. In theory he’s a pretty fantastic fit next to Booker.

The argument against him is of course incredibly strong too and like I said before, I’d ultimately pass, unless the price is literally just taking him for Crowder/Saric/Shamet. I just think it’s interesting to think about. The type of talent that we need to add is just not available to us unless it comes with baggage. Simmons probably has too much baggage, but it’s fun to think about him figuring things out and us being the team to benefit from it.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

He averaged pretty awesome numbers in the beginning of his career, and still never really impacted winning at the highest level, and he has had a history of off court/chemistry issues that are significantly worse than Ayton. In a vacuum, there is a list of pros and cons for every player, but in our case, given the current fanbase's frustration with Ayton's flaws, it's hard to see how we can possibly stomach what Simmons ultimately brings on the table.

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