Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by INFORMER »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:29 am
I would honestly take Poeltl/McDermott/Richardson/1st at this point. I’d want Vassell, but like you said earlier Inf, I don’t think SA would move him.
I'd take that deal with Roby included. It wouldn't be my first choice (I would try to package Ayton and Crowder to send to NY first), but it's an option I'm open to.
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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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INFORMER wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:32 am
Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:29 am
I would honestly take Poeltl/McDermott/Richardson/1st at this point. I’d want Vassell, but like you said earlier Inf, I don’t think SA would move him.
I'd take that deal with Roby included. It wouldn't be my first choice (I would try to package Ayton and Crowder to send to NY first), but it's an option I'm open to.
Who would you want from NY?

As for the SA deal

Poeltl is good. He defends and Can do a little playmaking. He finishes well. Can’t shoot free throws though.

McDermott and JRich would be decent bench pieces and would be especially helpful if we packaged CamJ/Crowder/Craig/Saric/Shamet with 5 1sts for KD

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by INFORMER »

Grimes, Fournier, Robinson, and Toppin for Ayton, Okogie, Crowder
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Shabazz
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Shabazz »

INFORMER wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:37 am
Grimes, Fournier, Robinson, and Toppin for Ayton, Okogie, Crowder
I know you like Robinson, but he can't stay healthy.
Crowder Trade Targets: Kuzma or Avdija, J. Isaac, J. Holiday + Jalen Johnson, Quickley + Reddish, Clarkson and/or Vanderbilt, Barnes + Lyles or Metu or T. Davis, E. Gordon + KJ Martin, Patrick Williams, Oubre, McConnell + Brissett

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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True, but his contract is actually pretty good, enough so that I don't mind the risk.
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Drewsprocket
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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INFORMER wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:30 am
Split T wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:24 am
I’m trying to decide if Simmons would be worth trading for. I’m thinking no…he’s too expensive and seems broken. I think for the right team it might be worth trying to buy low and rehabilitate him, but we don’t really have the time to do that. Still if all it took was taking on his contract for Crowder/Saric/Shamet because Brooklyn just wants to dump him, I guess I’d do that.
Drewsprocket wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:05 am
Simmons has been on track towards this for years. He’s never evolved to become a better player and has lost his focus and effort. Regardless, he’s not a player worth having if your team chemistry is shaky on the court and in the locker room.
I am sort of concluding that this version of the Suns isn’t getting out of the first round given the large question marks hanging over their head. I get the feeling Book is just putting his head down and balling through it.
I think Simmons has great potential as a role player, and Monty could probably use him well.

I don't think he makes sense with Ayton on the team, but if Ayton were moved, Simmons could work here. I don't think I would trade for him this season, but maybe next season. It's easier to take on the risk if you know he is entering his final year the follow season. But taking on the risk with TWO more years after this one; that is too much for my liking.
Potential and Should is mind boggling. He should be a top PF in this league. Defending and creating and just scoring in the paint. But he doesn’t scratch his potential for whatever reason. No way you can pay him for what he does now.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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You right…it’s just the guys that have potential and are producing right now are never available. So do you go get guys who are producing but have low ceilings, or do you get the guys with potential that aren’t exactly producing?

It’s definitely a case by case thing and I think it’s likely that whoever goes after Simmons will ultimately be disappointed, but there’s a chance it rewards greatly.

He hasn’t exactly shown much in Brooklyn, but I like the idea of him as a Draymond. More perimeter based defensively, but defensive menace that can be an offensive hub with his playmaking. Ben is a way better athlete and finisher. To me he doesn’t even need to shoot, just like Draymond doesn’t.

A big part of the reason it’s so dangerous to play up at the level and trap Curry on screens is because Draymond is so elite as a playmaker out of the short roll. He picks it apart. Simmons could be that as well with the added bonus that he’s a threat to take it all the way himself.

I wouldn’t use him as a primary ball handler, unless maybe in some bench units, but as a screening big and short roll playmaker. He can also be a major transition threat. He does need to overcome his fear of getting fouled. That’s pretty big.

Just imagine a Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Simmons team in a post CP3 world with a floor spacing/rim protecting 5 like Turner. I think that would be pretty lethal. IF Simmons figures things out…and yes that is a big IF

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

If we think so little of Ayton’s mental toughness that we want to move him for a Toppin or Poeltl based package, I shudder to think how this board would respond to Simmons’ mental midgetry.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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I bet you Ayton will roll off another 20 game stretch where he looks awesome...before he shrinks again for another 10 games

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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pickle wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:30 pm
If we think so little of Ayton’s mental toughness that we want to move him for a Toppin or Poeltl based package, I shudder to think how this board would respond to Simmons’ mental midgetry.
Well if we traded for Simmons we’d only be losing our castoffs. I’d feel differently about Ayton if we hadn’t sunk a lot of resources into him. Though I do think there’d be a lot of frustration with Simmons on here.

He did drop 15/13/7 in a win over Portland tonight. Easily his best game as a Net

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

virtual9mm wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:44 pm
I bet you Ayton will roll off another 20 game stretch where he looks awesome...before he shrinks again for another 10 games
Let’s get that 20 game stretch out there and then shut him down with a bogus injury until we can trade him.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

Split T wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:04 pm
pickle wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:30 pm
If we think so little of Ayton’s mental toughness that we want to move him for a Toppin or Poeltl based package, I shudder to think how this board would respond to Simmons’ mental midgetry.
Well if we traded for Simmons we’d only be losing our castoffs. I’d feel differently about Ayton if we hadn’t sunk a lot of resources into him. Though I do think there’d be a lot of frustration with Simmons on here.

He did drop 15/13/7 in a win over Portland tonight. Easily his best game as a Net
And yet we’d be committing max money to a guy who’s basically broken. I mean all the things we complain about with DA are exactly the same things that Simmons refuses to do, including getting fouled. At least DA takes the occasional open 3 and he’s probably laying the ball up over Trae instead of passing it off. And he’s a reasonably good teammate.

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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With Simmons, it's more buying low with potential to be a good fit. You'd basically be counting down until his deal is up, knowing that, if you want resign him, you'd probably get him at a half to a third of the cost; that's why I wouldn't move for him until next season. It's completely different from handing someone a brand new max contract.
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carey
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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INFORMER wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:51 am
True, but his contract is actually pretty good, enough so that I don't mind the risk.
I love MR and not just because he’s from here. He has the kind of game I want my centers to have. Shot blocking and finishing machine.


Question for you though. Do you think Obi Toppin’s newfound range is legit? Making a jump from 30% to 40% (where he is now) is really difficult. Does he regress towards the mean? Cause if he doesn’t and you could start him instead of Craig in a lineup with MR, Booker and Mikal that could be something. A lot of length for teams to deal with.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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I don't know if he can stay at 40%, but I do believe he can stay above 30%. Maybe he lands somewhere in the middle? 35-36%?
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JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by JeremyG »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:34 pm
This doesn't seem to lend credence to the theory that he's already packed his bags and is just waiting until Jan. 15.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:31 pm
With Simmons, it's more buying low with potential to be a good fit. You'd basically be counting down until his deal is up, knowing that, if you want resign him, you'd probably get him at a half to a third of the cost; that's why I wouldn't move for him until next season. It's completely different from handing someone a brand new max contract.
I don’t know how different that is. We had to give DA a max because we can’t afford to let an asset walk away for nothing, but if DA were on another team and everyone knew what we know now about him, how many of us would be pushing to trade for him? Simmons is far worse as an asset and the chemistry issues alone makes me not want to get anywhere near him. Maybe we wait until the year he actually does cost 1/3 of his current contract first.

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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pickle wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:31 pm
With Simmons, it's more buying low with potential to be a good fit. You'd basically be counting down until his deal is up, knowing that, if you want resign him, you'd probably get him at a half to a third of the cost; that's why I wouldn't move for him until next season. It's completely different from handing someone a brand new max contract.
I don’t know how different that is. We had to give DA a max because we can’t afford to let an asset walk away for nothing, but if DA were on another team and everyone knew what we know now about him, how many of us would be pushing to trade for him? Simmons is far worse as an asset and the chemistry issues alone makes me not want to get anywhere near him. Maybe we wait until the year he actually does cost 1/3 of his current contract first.
I don't think anyone is "pushing" for a Simmons trade. It's more just casual conversation.

And in your hypothetical, I don't think anyone would be pushing for DA (except maybe one person) because he would have more years left on his deal and he doesn't have a skillset that we would be looking for.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

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