Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (10/14 - 10/20)

Post by Superbone »

djy2j wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:16 pm
ShelC wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:56 am
Anyone know the rules for a 3way trade with the Pacers? Could we send DA to the Pacers for Turner with Hield going to the Lakers? Not suggesting it necessarily, just curious about the rules.

I still think Jones may have something in the works.
I don't think he's here past the deadline. Jones is smart enough to know you can't have a max player that has as little impact on the game as Ayton has had this year and make a deep run. He waited to match so he could pay as little as possible to help with a future trade/free agent opportunity. If he really wanted him he would have offered him max out of the gate. The writing is on the wall for Ayton I believe. I still think Jones wants to get Durant here and I think he sees that the asking price dropping as the Nets continue to implode.
Jones is practicing patience. I'll give him that. Either that or he's just not doing anything to improve the team externally intentionally. :P
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:45 am
He's only under contract next year 23-24 for $20mil, then the following year 24-25 is guaranteed just $2mil. And he's a year older than Jae.
Ya but he’s better than Jae. I guess I’m not sure what your saying the dilemma is. I’m sure Jae would have stayed had we gave him a 20 million a year extension, but he’s not worth that.

Online
User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 10198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by ShelC »

I'm saying we're supposedly willing to take on Bojan for $20mil next year but (allegedly) balked at giving Jae something like a 2 year 20mil extension starting next season ($10mil 23-24 and $10mil 24-25). It's still $20mil in total, just that Jae would have an extra year on the deal but we'd at least have him playing games for us right now.

Again, I don't think it was about starting or finishing games for Jae. I think it was about him not wanting to head into free agency as a 32year old coming off the bench for 20mpg. He wanted some security, and even a 3 year $24mil deal or 2year $20ish type of deal is still moveable down the line.
Last edited by ShelC on Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:44 pm
I'm saying we're supposedly willing to take on Bojan for $20mil next year but (allegedly) balked at giving Jae something like a 2 year 20mil extension starting next season ($10mil 23-24 and $10mil 24-25). It's still $20mil in total, just that Jae would have an extra year on the deal but we'd at least have him playing games for us right now.

Again, I don't think it was about starting or finishing games for Jae. I think it was about him not wanting to head into free agency as a 32year old coming off the bench for 20mpg. He wanted some security, and even a 3 year $24mil deal or 2year $32ish type of deal is still moveable down the line.
Gotcha, I thought you were saying 20 million a year for Jae. Ya 20 million total seems fair. My hope is that Jones realized we needed a wing that offered something else. Mikal is a better defender and CamJ is a better shooter. We need a wing that is a playmaker or puts some pressure on the rim.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 16713
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (10/14 - 10/20)

Post by Mori Chu »

djy2j wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:16 pm
I don't think he's here past the deadline. Jones is smart enough to know you can't have a max player that has as little impact on the game as Ayton has had this year and make a deep run. He waited to match so he could pay as little as possible to help with a future trade/free agent opportunity. If he really wanted him he would have offered him max out of the gate. The writing is on the wall for Ayton I believe. I still think Jones wants to get Durant here and I think he sees that the asking price dropping as the Nets continue to implode.
My guess is that it's a mixed approach. You can't just let Ayton walk away for nothing in restricted free agency. He is a valuable asset. You re-sign him and either a) he turns out to be really good, in which case, hooray, or b) if he's only so-so, you try to trade the asset for something of value. Luckily I think Ayton is at least playing well enough that he still has trade value. It would be a real disaster if he were having a truly awful season to the point where we couldn't even trade him. At this point we can still get something decent for him, especially if we're willing to include other assets such as a pick or Cam Johnson or Jae Crowder or whatever.

My guess is you try to see if you can get KD for Ayton + extras. If that doesn't work, you start looking into options like KAT or John Collins or Julius Randle or other good-but-not-great players like that. I think that Jones has done well so far in terms of keeping our assets in hand and not just losing them for nothing, while keeping options open to trade them and upgrade in the future.

I do think that if Ayton doesn't improve and we don't find a good blockbuster trade, this season does have the potential to be a big letdown. It's early, but this team as constructed feels like it isn't really a championship contender. Decent playoff team, maybe get to the 2nd round, but that's about it unless we see a big leap from some of our guys. Or find a steal of a trade for Crowder. Or upgrade Ayton for a KD or other blue chipper.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 6333
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by specialsauce »

I have no interest in KAT honestly

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 4277
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by AmareIsGod »

Not sure where to ask this question so please feel free to move mods. Anyone else experiencing having to log back in here multiple times a day?
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2804
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:23 pm
Not sure where to ask this question so please feel free to move mods. Anyone else experiencing having to log back in here multiple times a day?
I’ve had this issue on and off for a while now. Mostly happens when I try to like a post, but it doesn’t happen consistently.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Superbone »

pickle wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:53 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:23 pm
Not sure where to ask this question so please feel free to move mods. Anyone else experiencing having to log back in here multiple times a day?
I’ve had this issue on and off for a while now. Mostly happens when I try to like a post, but it doesn’t happen consistently.
I have not experienced this.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I don't think I've ever been that angry shooting a basketball." - Cam Johnson

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2804
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by pickle »

I posted about this a while ago and Mori installed a patch, after which I only occasionally run into this. Before the patch basically every time I like a post I’m kicked out of my login. I don’t know if me logging in on different devices impacts this in any way.

User avatar
Drewsprocket
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (10/14 - 10/20)

Post by Drewsprocket »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:56 pm
djy2j wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:16 pm
I don't think he's here past the deadline. Jones is smart enough to know you can't have a max player that has as little impact on the game as Ayton has had this year and make a deep run. He waited to match so he could pay as little as possible to help with a future trade/free agent opportunity. If he really wanted him he would have offered him max out of the gate. The writing is on the wall for Ayton I believe. I still think Jones wants to get Durant here and I think he sees that the asking price dropping as the Nets continue to implode.
My guess is that it's a mixed approach. You can't just let Ayton walk away for nothing in restricted free agency. He is a valuable asset. You re-sign him and either a) he turns out to be really good, in which case, hooray, or b) if he's only so-so, you try to trade the asset for something of value. Luckily I think Ayton is at least playing well enough that he still has trade value. It would be a real disaster if he were having a truly awful season to the point where we couldn't even trade him. At this point we can still get something decent for him, especially if we're willing to include other assets such as a pick or Cam Johnson or Jae Crowder or whatever.

My guess is you try to see if you can get KD for Ayton + extras. If that doesn't work, you start looking into options like KAT or John Collins or Julius Randle or other good-but-not-great players like that. I think that Jones has done well so far in terms of keeping our assets in hand and not just losing them for nothing, while keeping options open to trade them and upgrade in the future.

I do think that if Ayton doesn't improve and we don't find a good blockbuster trade, this season does have the potential to be a big letdown. It's early, but this team as constructed feels like it isn't really a championship contender. Decent playoff team, maybe get to the 2nd round, but that's about it unless we see a big leap from some of our guys. Or find a steal of a trade for Crowder. Or upgrade Ayton for a KD or other blue chipper.
Whatever player JJ trades for needs to be a clutch bucket getter, create for himself, and can get to the line.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 16713
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Mori Chu »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:23 pm
Not sure where to ask this question so please feel free to move mods. Anyone else experiencing having to log back in here multiple times a day?
If you don't mind my asking: What kind of computer do you use? What operating system, and what browser? Do you have any browser extensions or plugins installed such as "security" software or "privacy" enhancers?

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

I’m trying to decide if Simmons would be worth trading for. I’m thinking no…he’s too expensive and seems broken. I think for the right team it might be worth trying to buy low and rehabilitate him, but we don’t really have the time to do that. Still if all it took was taking on his contract for Crowder/Saric/Shamet because Brooklyn just wants to dump him, I guess I’d do that.

User avatar
Drewsprocket
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Drewsprocket »

Simmons has been on track towards this for years. He’s never evolved to become a better player and has lost his focus and effort. Regardless, he’s not a player worth having if your team chemistry is shaky on the court and in the locker room.
I am sort of concluding that this version of the Suns isn’t getting out of the first round given the large question marks hanging over their head. I get the feeling Book is just putting his head down and balling through it.

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

Drewsprocket wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:05 am
Simmons has been on track towards this for years. He’s never evolved to become a better player and has lost his focus and effort. Regardless, he’s not a player worth having if your team chemistry is shaky on the court and in the locker room.
I am sort of concluding that this version of the Suns isn’t getting out of the first round given the large question marks hanging over their head. I get the feeling Book is just putting his head down and balling through it.
Ya I’m at the point with Simmons that I’d only take him if Brooklyn is just dumping him. Can’t rely on him, but the upside is still there if he can even just get back to what he was in Philly. I don’t like the fit with CP3 or Ayton though…I’d want him off the bench.

Online
User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 10198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by ShelC »

He's intriguing because of his ballhandling, size and defense with the ability to play point-forward as a PF but he's a zero on offense and I really think the Philly experience made him hate basketball. I don't think he's a bad guy, but I also think he (and some others) got paid at a young age and are kind of checked out. It's like hitting the lottery at 21 years old.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 16713
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Mori Chu »

Simmons is a broken man. There's no value in acquiring him on his current bloated contract. If he ever becomes valuable, it'll be after that contract is up and he goes to some contending team as a minimum or near-minimum FA. That's probably his one chance to be a net positive again and resurrect his career. But no point in giving up actual assets and wasting that much cap on him.

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:22 am
He's intriguing because of his ballhandling, size and defense with the ability to play point-forward as a PF but he's a zero on offense and I really think the Philly experience made him hate basketball. I don't think he's a bad guy, but I also think he (and some others) got paid at a young age and are kind of checked out. It's like hitting the lottery at 21 years old.
Ya I thought it was mostly him just wanting out of Philly, but it’s pretty clear he had legitimate issues. I don’t know if he’s checked out or just has lost all confidence, but that Philly situation did seem to break him. He really needs to go to some small market team not trying to win and see if he can re-discover his confidence and/or love of basketball.

User avatar
djy2j
Posts: 2494
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:10 am

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by djy2j »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:22 am
Simmons is a broken man. There's no value in acquiring him on his current bloated contract. If he ever becomes valuable, it'll be after that contract is up and he goes to some contending team as a minimum or near-minimum FA. That's probably his one chance to be a net positive again and resurrect his career. But no point in giving up actual assets and wasting that much cap on him.
There is now way I'd want Simmons on my team, even if he were playing for free. This man is a fraud. He is lazy and I do think he has lied about his mental and physical condition at times. He's a liability an and off the court. He's squandered every opportunity hes had to this point. The best thing for him were to get cut and have to go play overseas to see what it really takes to be a pro ball player.
The artist formerly known as Y2JJEDIPIMP on .net

"Just like Neal Armstrong I went to space and now I'm back..."

Online
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 18897
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns News: Week 5 (11/14 - 11/20)

Post by Split T »

djy2j wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:31 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:22 am
Simmons is a broken man. There's no value in acquiring him on his current bloated contract. If he ever becomes valuable, it'll be after that contract is up and he goes to some contending team as a minimum or near-minimum FA. That's probably his one chance to be a net positive again and resurrect his career. But no point in giving up actual assets and wasting that much cap on him.
There is now way I'd want Simmons on my team, even if he were playing for free. This man is a fraud. He is lazy and I do think he has lied about his mental and physical condition at times. He's a liability an and off the court. He's squandered every opportunity hes had to this point. The best thing for him were to get cut and have to go play overseas to see what it really takes to be a pro ball player.
You don’t think how things have gone for him since leaving Philly give credence to his mental condition? I think they broke him mentally and he’s always seemed to be a bit fragile.

I do think he was purposefully problematic and unwilling to cooperate though.

Post Reply