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Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:19 pm
by Mori Chu
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:17 am
Why in the world would you give up 2 firsts let alone 3 for Derozan when you can have Eric Gordon for 1.
You guys forget what Derozan was like on the west coast.
Pretty much anyone can be an all star on the East. Brandon Knight almost did it once
.
As for all-nba. He ain’t doing that again neither is Randle. Flash in the pan.
We need a solid 4,5,6 guy, not someone who’s used to being a 1 or 2. It’s not that easy to maintain the same level with a significant drop in usage.
I don't think I agree with this. We desperately need a #2 guy, a Robin, or a 1B, or whatever. Booker is shouldering way too much load scoring and initiating offense. Having another guy like DeRozan would be a really potent weapon for us in a way that the aging Gordon can never be. I am not a huge proponent of trading lots of assets for DeRozan, but I do think he would be a lot more impactful here than Gordon would.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:19 pm
by specialsauce
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:19 pm
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:17 am
Why in the world would you give up 2 firsts let alone 3 for Derozan when you can have Eric Gordon for 1.
You guys forget what Derozan was like on the west coast.
Pretty much anyone can be an all star on the East. Brandon Knight almost did it once
.
As for all-nba. He ain’t doing that again neither is Randle. Flash in the pan.
We need a solid 4,5,6 guy, not someone who’s used to being a 1 or 2. It’s not that easy to maintain the same level with a significant drop in usage.
I don't think I agree with this. We desperately need a #2 guy, a Robin, or a 1B, or whatever. Booker is shouldering way too much load scoring and initiating offense. Having another guy like DeRozan would be a really potent weapon for us in a way that the aging Gordon can never be. I am not a huge proponent of trading lots of assets for DeRozan, but I do think he would be a lot more impactful here than Gordon would.
Yeah wut. DeRozan is on a different planet than Gordon
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:31 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I realize you guys are rosterbating, but the Bulls aren't letting DeRozan go for anything less than Mikal or Ayton from the Suns.
Maaayyybeee pre-injury Cam Johnson with a bunch of picks and salary relief, but I highly doubt it.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:37 pm
by Split T
Well it originally came from a non-suns writer who suggested contracts and picks. I don’t think Derozan has that much value. He’s a 33 year old that doesn’t exactly play the way most teams want to. He probably doesn’t have a ton of appeal. Certainly not worth Mikal. I’d need multiple picks coming back our way if that was the ask and even then I’d say no.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:54 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
If I were the Bulls GM, I'd take the Lakers package of Westbrook and two firsts before any non-Mikal/Ayton Suns offer, and I think the Lakers would love to acquire DeRozan. That's not to mention the Warriors and Clippers who I think would also push to make a deal for him. I'm sure there would be other teams as well.
DeRozan has a ton of value to the contenders for the next two seasons, and I think his "unusual" play style is significantly overrated as a negative point of acquiring him. He's an elite offensive player and could absolutely swing the title race as a second scorer on a contender.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:09 pm
by specialsauce
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:54 pm
If I were the Bulls GM, I'd take the Lakers package of Westbrook and two firsts before any non-Mikal/Ayton Suns offer, and I think the Lakers would love to acquire DeRozan. That's not to mention the Warriors and Clippers who I think would also push to make a deal for him. I'm sure there would be other teams as well.
DeRozan has a ton of value to the contenders for the next two seasons, and I think his "unusual" play style is significantly overrated as a negative point of acquiring him. He's an elite offensive player and could absolutely swing the title race as a second scorer on a contender.
You’d be fired as GM in like two seconds then. Westbrook is a terrible contract
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:27 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:09 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:54 pm
If I were the Bulls GM, I'd take the Lakers package of Westbrook and two firsts before any non-Mikal/Ayton Suns offer, and I think the Lakers would love to acquire DeRozan. That's not to mention the Warriors and Clippers who I think would also push to make a deal for him. I'm sure there would be other teams as well.
DeRozan has a ton of value to the contenders for the next two seasons, and I think his "unusual" play style is significantly overrated as a negative point of acquiring him. He's an elite offensive player and could absolutely swing the title race as a second scorer on a contender.
You’d be fired as GM in like two seconds then. Westbrook is a terrible contract
No way. I'd be given a promotion for tanking for Wemby and getting $40M+ off of the cap sheet this summer.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:46 pm
by Wally_West
Russ is getting paid 47 million, DeRozen getting paid 27. If your the bulls you’d have add additional money to even pull off that. Then you’d get draft picks from the lakers, that won’t even convert till end of the decade, eternity in NBA. I agree the Bulls could get better offers than what the Suns could offer, but that laker deal ain’t it.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:54 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Future Lakers picks are extremely valuable assets to hold regardless of when they convey. Despite being one of the marquee NBA franchises, it's a mom & pop show that runs on a tight budget and their only way of salvaging the looming talent crater will be convincing an all-star to play with Anthony Davis via free agency or trading Davis to acquire a broader set of assets.
DeRozan and Ball are enough to match Westbrook. FWIW, I think there's a good chance Ball is cooked as a high level PG and he still has $40M left on his contract after this season.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:02 pm
by INFORMER
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:18 am
The Bobster wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 am
You'd be sacrificing a lot of rebounding and defense with that lineup.
A LOT.
Rebounding and defense from who? We wouldn’t be trading anyone form our rotation to get him. He’d take the Cam Johnson spot in the starting lineup…not exactly someone providing a ton of rebounding or defense.
You get worse defensively replacing Craig or Cam Johnson with DeRozan.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:03 pm
by specialsauce
INFORMER wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:02 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:18 am
The Bobster wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 am
You'd be sacrificing a lot of rebounding and defense with that lineup.
A LOT.
Rebounding and defense from who? We wouldn’t be trading anyone form our rotation to get him. He’d take the Cam Johnson spot in the starting lineup…not exactly someone providing a ton of rebounding or defense.
You get worse defensively replacing Craig or Cam Johnson with DeRozan.
That’s okay
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:06 pm
by INFORMER
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:04 am
I think the one area for pause is his lack of spacing. He’s not a great fit with CP3/Ayton…But man would he be an elite release valve for Booker. I also think a Payne/Lee/Derozan/CamJ/Jock bench unit would kill…Spacing around an elite midrange scorer who is also a high level playmaker is fun.
Figuring out the right lineups and when to play them might be tough, but overall I think it’s definitely something I do…though I’d hold out for 2 1sts.
I love DeRozan, but yeah, I don't like the basketball fit. I think you can replace Paul with DeRozan, but having Paul/Booker/DeRozan/Ayton would lead to diminishing returns. You won't be getting the most out of Ayton, you won't be able to utilize DeRozan's facilitation skills; it's a great video game lineup, but in reality you'll end up marginalizing two of those four players.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:07 pm
by Wally_West
Yeah, it’s DeRozan. I’m okay with losing a little defense in that case haha. Of course you could always still just use a big line up to close out games.
Book-Mikal-DeRozan-Craig/CamJ-Ayton. That line up is worth the picks you give up but that’s just mean.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:11 pm
by INFORMER
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:54 pm
DeRozan and Ball are enough to match Westbrook. FWIW, I think there's a good chance Ball is cooked as a high level PG and he still has $40M left on his contract after this season.
FF, you love prematurely declaring guys cooked.
I think Ball will be fine because he has the size to guard other positions. He has developed a solid 3-point shot and will always be a skilled passer. He just can't seem to stay on the court.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:15 pm
by INFORMER
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:27 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:09 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:54 pm
If I were the Bulls GM, I'd take the Lakers package of Westbrook and two firsts before any non-Mikal/Ayton Suns offer, and I think the Lakers would love to acquire DeRozan. That's not to mention the Warriors and Clippers who I think would also push to make a deal for him. I'm sure there would be other teams as well.
DeRozan has a ton of value to the contenders for the next two seasons, and I think his "unusual" play style is significantly overrated as a negative point of acquiring him. He's an elite offensive player and could absolutely swing the title race as a second scorer on a contender.
You’d be fired as GM in like two seconds then. Westbrook is a terrible contract
No way. I'd be given a promotion for tanking for Wemby and getting $40M+ off of the cap sheet this summer.
That deal won't make the Bulls bad enough to be in the Wemby sweepstakes. Of course, any team in the lottery could win the overall pick, but Chicago has a very talented roster. They'd have to sit LaVine and probably dump Vuc too before they can be a tanking candidate.
But I agree about the Westbrook contract. That would be a much needed salary cap reset that could help the Bulls quickly retool.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:20 pm
by Wally_West
I mean if the Bulls wanted to just get off the Lonzo contract I’d be down to trade Crowder and Dario or Shamet and some draft shit for him.
The risk/reward worth it it on that but doubt Chicago would be down tho lol
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:21 pm
by INFORMER
I don't know; Ball's injury situation is pretty serious. I think the Bulls would think about that. The one problem is that they need point guard help. So I think they would like to do a deal that brings someone in that could provide that.
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:24 pm
by Wally_West
INFORMER wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:21 pm
I don't know; Ball's injury situation is pretty serious. I think the Bulls would think about that. The one problem is that they need point guard help. So I think they would like to do a deal that brings someone in that could provide that.
So Jae and Shamet it is
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:29 pm
by Split T
I could see Lonzo becoming like a Joe ingles type
Re: Suns News: Week 6 (11/21 - 11/27)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:34 pm
by INFORMER
Wally_West wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:24 pm
INFORMER wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:21 pm
I don't know; Ball's injury situation is pretty serious. I think the Bulls would think about that. The one problem is that they need point guard help. So I think they would like to do a deal that brings someone in that could provide that.
So Jae and Shamet it is
Maybe Saric/Shamet/Crowder for Ball/Pat Williams. But I think there would be a legit chance Ball may not even pass a physical.