Around the League: August 2014

[Mori Chu]

I like a lot of what Simmons says there. I really don't value Wiggins nearly as much as INF does. He may end up being good, but i have a huge fandom for Love and think he is one of the very best players in the NBA right now. I think he is going to be amazing in Cleveland.

[Ring_Wanted]

The point is that had Cavs stayed strong, the Wolves would have taken a package without Wiggins.

When the Cleveland scenario started I thought Waiters, Thompson, Bennett and picks would be the price, but Flip has done his job and played his hand perfectly. At some point I also realized that he had the ultimate leverage. If he was willing to burn the Wolves to the ground and let Love go next year for nothing, Cleveland just couldn't force him to take what he didn't want.

LeBron's pressure on Cleveland's FO is supposedly what enabled Flip to acquire Wiggins, but if Flip wasn't bluffing and actually was ready to play the season out with Love, all what was left for the Cavs was deciding what weights more. LeBron's prime vs long term, and honestly I don't blame them for going all in.

As for the Warriors and Klay, well, they made a mistake. Klay is a cornerstone if you look at him with the right eyes, but Love is just vastly superior. Hornacek was an actual allstar the season before the Barkley trade and the Suns still pulled the trigger, despite their homegrown talent having a season maybe even better than Goran's 2014.

This case is pretty similar, but the Warriors didn't pull the trigger. They dropped the soap, in my opinion. Curry-Love is an inmensely gifted combo, and all you have to do is providing them with role players, but the thing is that they already have Iggy, Bogut, Green and Livingston so their roster wouldn't have been far away. Instead, they held onto their son, who while a very good player on his own, just isn't a trascendent talent. Soon will be paid like one, by the way.

Big mistake by the Warriors, but not an indicative of what you can or can't do if you are the Cavs.

[gosuns]

I think it is the right move for Cleveland. You get a pretty sure thing in Love and will definitly be a contender in the east, if not the favorites to come out at this point.

Wiggins has tremendous upside, so i think it is actually a good deal for both Teams. No loosers on this one in my opinion. Totally get why both teams would do this deal. Also, i think Minny would never have made this deal without Wiggins beeing involved.

[ShelC]

Just because the Warriors wouldn't give up Klay for Love doesn't mean trading Wiggins for him is a bad move. It's a win-now move. But more than winning, from the Cavs perspective, it's a marketing/money making move. It's another superteam - complete with national games, jersey sales, sponsor money. You can argue for Wiggins all you want, but he's not going to create the buzz on the Cavs that Love will.

I for one am not as enamored by Wiggins as others so I think the deal is fine. Wiggins may end up a very good player, but I don't see some transcendent talent that Cleveland will regret giving up.

[Mori Chu]

The point is that had Cavs stayed strong, the Wolves would have taken a package without Wiggins.

How do you know that? The Bulls, and potentially the Warriors, had better offers on the table.

When the Cleveland scenario started I thought Waiters, Thompson, Bennett and picks would be the price, but Flip has done his job and played his hand perfectly. At some point I also realized that he had the ultimate leverage. If he was willing to burn the Wolves to the ground and let Love go next year for nothing, Cleveland just couldn't force him to take what he didn't want.

But how does that make sense for Minnesota? "We won't accept your trade! We'll show you! We'll burn our whole team to the ground and be horrible for years and get nothing at all for Kevin Love, just to show you! Haha!"

As for the Warriors and Klay, well, they made a mistake. Klay is a cornerstone if you look at him with the right eyes, but Love is just vastly superior. Hornacek was an actual allstar the season before the Barkley trade and the Suns still pulled the trigger, despite their homegrown talent having a season maybe even better than Goran's 2014.

This case is pretty similar, but the Warriors didn't pull the trigger. They dropped the soap, in my opinion. Curry-Love is an inmensely gifted combo, and all you have to do is providing them with role players, but the thing is that they already have Iggy, Bogut, Green and Livingston so their roster wouldn't have been far away. Instead, they held onto their son, who while a very good player on his own, just isn't a trascendent talent. Soon will be paid like one, by the way.

Big mistake by the Warriors, but not an indicative of what you can or can't do if you are the Cavs.

I would have made the trade if I were the Warriors, but that's partly because I don't really believe Klay Thompson will get much better than he already is now. I could be wrong in the long run, but I just don't think that Warriors team is a real contender, even with a new better coach in Steve Kerr. I wanted to see them shake it up and see if they could really go for a ring. But it's a nice show of support for Klay that they kept him.

I wonder if Love said that he wouldn't re-sign there? Maybe that scared them off as well?

The other thing is, they're going to have to max out Klay now. They can't let him leave after they just refused to trade Kevin Love for him. But would you really want to pay that guy the max? Oof. Don't think he is even close to being worth it.

[Ring_Wanted]

How do you know that? The Bulls, and potentially the Warriors, had better offers on the table.

I don't know that. I thought it was the case but then dropped the idea some time ago when I realized that Flip and the Wolves were truly ready to keep Love for one more year unless they were offered real premium assets. When it came down to it, the Cavs showed they were willing to give up Wiggins, and personally I am fine with it.

But how does that make sense for Minnesota? "We won't accept your trade! We'll show you! We'll burn our whole team to the ground and be horrible for years and get nothing at all for Kevin Love, just to show you! Haha!"

It doesn't need to be logical. Sometimes teams do things that don't make sense. The Wolves were desperate, and maybe to their eyes the difference between a mediocre move and no move at all was nonexistent. It wouldn't be personal against the team 'lowballing', it would be personal towards Love, who after all is the one 'betraying' them.

[Shabazz]

But that's what happens when you hand your team over to the President of the Shabazz Napier Fan Club.

All of these:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/whitneyjefferso ... me#1ctaofx

[Shabazz]

The point is that had Cavs stayed strong, the Wolves would have taken a package without Wiggins.

Not from the Wolves, they wouldn't have.

[INFORMER]

But more than winning, from the Cavs perspective, it's a marketing/money making move. It's another superteam - complete with national games, jersey sales, sponsor money. You can argue for Wiggins all you want, but he's not going to create the buzz on the Cavs that Love will.

That's a really weak argument. First of all, Cleveland just got back LEBRON FREAKIN' JAMES. They weren't hurting for buzz. Once LeBron decided to come back, they had all the nationally televised games they could dream of.

Secondly, Andrew Wiggins landed on the cover of Sports Illustrated. And with his athleticism and above the rim game, it would have taken him about 2 seconds to become a household name playing next to LeBron and being on national television every week. Wiggins would have been a regular staple on SportsCenter's top 10. Kids aren't going to be downloading highlights of Kevin Love jacking up 3's or getting rebounds.

[Superbone]

Here's an article that INF will appreciate:

https://medium.com/ten-pens/the-kevin-l ... 8496464659

The Kevin Love Problem
How the Cavs just betrayed the evolution of basketball

[ShelC]

That's a really weak argument. First of all, Cleveland just got back LEBRON FREAKIN' JAMES. They weren't hurting for buzz. Once LeBron decided to come back, they had all the nationally televised games they could dream of.

Without question, but Love will still generate more buzz with the casual fan than Wiggins will. And KLove is a known commodity. He's one of the top players/bigs in the league and makes them an automatic favorite in the league. As good as Wiggins is/will be, he doesn't add that right now. Cavs are looking to make a run the next 3-4 years and Love allows that, especially in the East where a big like him gives them a distinct advantage.

And I've maintained swings are a dime a dozen. Wiggins is a nice talent with a lot of potential, but I don't see him being a truly dominant player, much less one who's ready to step in and play on a contender right now. And with Kyrie and LeBron, a guy like Love balances out the roster. They don't need another 19 year old athlete to develop for the next 2-3 years. And that's what it will take with Wiggins. LeBron's not waiting.

This isn't a case of LeBron using his pull to get Shabazz Napier drafted. It's Kevin Love.

[Ring_Wanted]

Here's an article that INF will appreciate:

https://medium.com/ten-pens/the-kevin-l ... 8496464659

The Kevin Love Problem
How the Cavs just betrayed the evolution of basketball

To summarize. Fastbreaks would be awesome with LeBron and Wiggins (huge innovation in the history of basketball for sure). Lots of wikipedia quotes from this Red Queen theory. Love's flaws. Wiggins' athleticism. Bennett described as a 'young gunner'. The pick was not necessary.

I’ll remember this moment: Cleveland had an opportunity to write the next chapter in the evolution of basketball. Instead, they opted for more of the same.

Ok.

[Mori Chu]

Have any of you read about this court decision? Ed O'Bannon and others sued the NCAA for basically not letting the players make any money while they are in school, for not owning their own name and image for marketing purposes, for having to live by relatively modest means while the NCAA makes money hand over fist. Apparently they just won. It sounds like a big deal.

http://grantland.com/features/ed-obanno ... s-lawsuit/

Will this have a big effect on how things work in the business of college basketball? People have long said that it is a good thing that the NCAA is not about money and that the athletes stay there for the love of the game. Only, they don't, and it IS about money, just that none of it is given to the athletes. If some kind of compromise is reached where these guys get some kind of stipend or share of the money they generate, I could see guys staying in the NCAA longer and not being in such a rush to go to the NBA, which would probably be a really good thing. But I can't tell if that's the direction it will go.

[DrSublime]

Have any of you read about this court decision? Ed O'Bannon and others sued the NCAA for basically not letting the players make any money while they are in school, for not owning their own name and image for marketing purposes, for having to live by relatively modest means while the NCAA makes money hand over fist. Apparently they just won. It sounds like a big deal.

http://grantland.com/features/ed-obanno ... s-lawsuit/

Will this have a big effect on how things work in the business of college basketball? People have long said that it is a good thing that the NCAA is not about money and that the athletes stay there for the love of the game. Only, they don't, and it IS about money, just that none of it is given to the athletes. If some kind of compromise is reached where these guys get some kind of stipend or share of the money they generate, I could see guys staying in the NCAA longer and not being in such a rush to go to the NBA, which would probably be a really good thing. But I can't tell if that's the direction it will go.

all they won was a $5,000 per year pay out, not a big deal considering the actual money they are now allowed to receive.

[SDC]

Have any of you read about this court decision? Ed O'Bannon and others sued the NCAA for basically not letting the players make any money while they are in school, for not owning their own name and image for marketing purposes, for having to live by relatively modest means while the NCAA makes money hand over fist. Apparently they just won. It sounds like a big deal.

http://grantland.com/features/ed-obanno ... s-lawsuit/

Will this have a big effect on how things work in the business of college basketball? People have long said that it is a good thing that the NCAA is not about money and that the athletes stay there for the love of the game. Only, they don't, and it IS about money, just that none of it is given to the athletes. If some kind of compromise is reached where these guys get some kind of stipend or share of the money they generate, I could see guys staying in the NCAA longer and not being in such a rush to go to the NBA, which would probably be a really good thing. But I can't tell if that's the direction it will go.

the NCAA is racist and this will destroy college sports. and teh NBA is all in on increasing the age limit to 20. unless these young adults want to go overseas and play basketball, their only other option is d-league. no effin way i want them in the NBA this early.

[SDC]

the NCAA should allow athletes to play in the d-league and make money. that's the compromise. else, the liberal judge just destroyed college sports as we know it. and who does it hurt? not the colleges/universities.

[INFORMER]

They don't need another 19 year old athlete to develop for the next 2-3 years.

Shel, your perspective on this is surprisingly narrow. And if you think Andrew Wiggins is just "another 19 year old athlete to develop," then there really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.

Wiggins is a nice talent with a lot of potential, but I don't see him being a truly dominant player, much less one who's ready to step in and play on a contender right now.

Funny thing is, Kevin Love isn't a dominant player. Unless you simply are using the idea of dominance as another way to say productive. And if you can't see Andrew Wiggins stepping in and playing on a contender right not, then your basketball vision is severely limited.

I saw Richard Dumas be a significant contributor as a rookie in the NBA Finals. Richard Dumas for crying out loud; I think Wiggins would have been more than capable of playing a potent third wheel to an All-Star in Kyrie Irving and the best player in the NBA.

[Ring_Wanted]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/499020941327081472

[ShelC]

I'm surprised he hasn't met with Chicago. If he wants to win, that's the place to go and he'd fit in perfectly. And he's from Illinois anyway.

[In2ition]

Seems like they are more than set at SF and PF. Indy would be a good spot for him, but I'm rooting for Cleveland at this point.