Game Day: Suns (19-17) @ Clippers (22-13), Mon 1/8/24

[wpmiller42]

I think the lesson here is that a little bit of Point Book is good, 100% Point Book is not. We really need a facilitator (TJ McConnell would be awesome), and maybe we need to do a Westbrook-like move of Beal to the bench. And we need Vogel to settle in on a rotation, because his current rotations are not working.

[JeremyG]

Clips up by 30. Is this the game that gets Vogel fired?

I’m ready for it, everyone seems mixed on it but idc. Let’s roll with Booker’s boy Kevin Young. He wanted him be coach. Fuck it. Ride and die time.

Now you’re scaring me Wally…isn’t that supposed to be “ride or die”?

[JeremyG]

This just doesn't look like a team that's going to improve with time. Being a PG is clearly taking away from Books game overall. Beal hasn't been much of a offensive threat. And no one seems to care on D for very long. Really need a PG and a new plan.

Making Beal be 100% the point guard might help. Booker is a 2 and needs to always be a 2. He was the best in the league, in fact.

[JeremyG]

I don’t know what Vogel is thinking with these KD-and-4-guards lineups. They never work, especially against big teams. The crazy thing is, of course we didn’t get stops or rebounds, but our offense was still iso-ball leading to mid-range contested jumpers. Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of going 5 out?

But then the KBD at C/Okogie at PF lineup was among the worst lineup decisions I’ve ever seen.

I finally got the nerve to watch the final five minutes after Vogel gave up and brought the scrubs in. Why? I’m not sure but even the Clippers scrubs played a much better brand of basketball than our scrubs. There was no offensive flow with our guys. Just felt like pick up basketball. I think I am done with Vogel. He’s not half the coach I thought he was. Williams was much better.

Ishbia, I think you might have to eat this contract and try something else. This isn’t working. The only problem is who? Is there anybody available that’s any better? I guess just try Young. Maybe his voice isn’t being heard.

If the Clippers have another deflating injury-plagued playoff run Ty Lue might want out next summer. But would he want to switch to this?

[JeremyG]

Bring on Doc Rivers…something needs to happen…this team isn’t winning a playoff round.

I hate giving up on coaches so quickly but if this continues with the big 3 staying healthy, I might have to agree.

Obviously a big part of the problem, though, is the roster construction. More specifically, dismantling the entire team and throwing a bunch of players together and expecting a “team.”

Which is almost 100% Ishbia. Just a year ago we were making fun of James Jones for his “continuity” and “internal development” approach.

[SunsSince92]

Clips up by 30. Is this the game that gets Vogel fired?

I’m ready for it, everyone seems mixed on it but idc. Let’s roll with Booker’s boy Kevin Young. He wanted him be coach. Fuck it. Ride and die time.

That's precisely why I wouldn't want to roll with Kevin Young, as it's essentially allowing the stars to call the shots which is normally a recipe for disaster.

What pissed me off most about the whole '36 unbothered' thing was the way Booker was happy to throw a coach who had got him to the NBA finals + a PG who had literally helped him maximise his potential under the bus as soon as his idol KD came along. I think most of us would agree it was probably time to move Monty on, but at least show some class and respect.

Similarly phoning it in for a chunk of this season because you didn't get the coach you wanted (which I think explains some of the issues we've experienced though obviously not all) is equally disrespectful.

[SunsSince92]

I think the lesson here is that a little bit of Point Book is good, 100% Point Book is not. We really need a facilitator (TJ McConnell would be awesome), and maybe we need to do a Westbrook-like move of Beal to the bench. And we need Vogel to settle in on a rotation, because his current rotations are not working.

A PG won't make any difference if our offense consists of Iso-Durant, Iso-Book and Iso- Beal 80% of the time. Beal still needs to work off the rust, I don't think benching him is going to help with that and it's not as though he's been as awful as Westbrick. He's looked pretty good in some of the games he played.

[SunsSince92]

Bring on Doc Rivers…something needs to happen…this team isn’t winning a playoff round.

Yikes.....

[Split T]

I still don’t think a pg is the issue. Offense will be fine…though they need to figure out the 4thQ . They do need to shoot more 3s. I’m not seeing the iso ball some of you say they are playing. They are running mostly the same stuff as last year.

Defense, rebounding, hustle…more 3s…all things that need improvement. That and better players as we only have 6 giving us consistently good play.

[Nodack]

I still don’t think a pg is the issue. Offense will be fine…though they need to figure out the 4thQ . They do need to shoot more 3s. I’m not seeing the iso ball some of you say they are playing. They are running mostly the same stuff as last year.

Defense, rebounding, hustle…more 3s…all things that need improvement. That and better players as we only have 6 giving us consistently good play.

Defense, rebounding and hustle is their achilles’ heel. They score plenty. If they rarely somehow manage to get a stop the other team gets the offensive rebound and scores anyway.

[Drewsprocket]

Cool so team needs a defensive 4 who can help with rebounding and switching and then run the point on offense.

[TOO]

This team plays like it's playing pick up ball at the gym. I do not believe there is any redeeming this squad.

[Split T]

Ya I’d love a PF that could both play next to Nurkic and be a small ball 5 seeing as we don’t seem to have a good backup 5 option right now. Don’t think that guy exists right now though. I’d settle for just a playable wing. I’ve seen Saddiq Bey mentioned as we could absorb him into our TPE. We need to find 8 guys we can play in the playoffs. We’ve got 6 right now.

[In2ition]

When you keep giving the other team chances until they score, you might have a defense...er rebounding problem.

[Shabazz]

On D, we’re heavily reliant on Durant’s help defense and rebounding and Grayson Allen’s perimeter D. Those just aren’t going to improve significantly.

So we’ve gone with the notion that we’ll just outscore teams, but we run a vanilla offense that generates too many mid-range looks.

As brutal as his shooting is, I wonder if starting Okogie might be the best path. It looked good in preseason. He’ll at least solve one problem (perimeter stopper), help with the rebounding, and maybe our highest paid assistant coach can figure out how to not hide him in the corner. Put him in screening actions, use him as a cutter, let him initiate plays.

[specialsauce]

Ya I’d love a PF that could both play next to Nurkic and be a small ball 5 seeing as we don’t seem to have a good backup 5 option right now. Don’t think that guy exists right now though. I’d settle for just a playable wing. I’ve seen Saddiq Bey mentioned as we could absorb him into our TPE. We need to find 8 guys we can play in the playoffs. We’ve got 6 right now.

We’re getting Draymond aren’t we

[Split T]

We can’t get him money wise unless it’s for Nurkic…Draymond the player would actually solve a lot of problems for us, but I can’t see it

[specialsauce]

This team plays like it's playing pick up ball at the gym. I do not believe there is any redeeming this squad.

Exactly. All Book and KD are interested in is being swag scorers. Zero intangibles on this team.

You surrounded 3 weak superstars with pussy role players. Bad combo.

These 3 need asshole role players around them.

[Mori Chu]

I feel like we need 3-years-ago Chris Paul and 3-years-ago Jae Crowder. That would fix 99% of what's wrong with this team. But, sadly, those guys aren't walking through that door.

[Mori Chu]

I still don’t think a pg is the issue. Offense will be fine…though they need to figure out the 4thQ . They do need to shoot more 3s. I’m not seeing the iso ball some of you say they are playing. They are running mostly the same stuff as last year.

Defense, rebounding, hustle…more 3s…all things that need improvement. That and better players as we only have 6 giving us consistently good play.

But don't you think as you watch the games that our offense has way too many isos, guys pounding the ball for 10-15 sec, faking 3s and driving into contested 15-footers, shots at the end of the shot clock, plays with only 0-2 passes total, etc.? The stats might be okay at a broad level, but when I watch the offense, it absolutely stinks from an eye test perspective. IMO it only has decent stats because we actually have quite elite level shooters and scorers on the roster. But they are making life difficult for them to get those shots and points.