The Suns Main Issues and How to Fix

[Superbone]

I still don't think the lack of point guard is the problem. Suns could not and cannot get a star point guard...period. Not gonna happen. You all seem to want a young Chris Paul. He doesn't exist. A middling PG isn't going to help. I keep asking those of you who keep lamenting the lack of point guard how the Suns can get one that will make a difference, and not one single lamenter has offered a viable candidate. If the Suns had a point guard, he would only bring the ball up and pass to Booker or Durant. Then he would sit in the corner. The PG won't matter when KD is passing (in traffic) to a cutting Eubanks 8 times in a row. (For the record, I was vocal about keeping Cam Payne, who is about the best PG the Suns could have hoped for. Do any of you wish the Suns were starting Cam Payne instead of Grayson Allen?)

"The problem," imo, is more related to Saucy's take that the team lacks heart, though this is too simplistic. The team doesn't play hard and makes stupid decisions (particularly the stars). I also think more player movement and screens would help. A PG doesn't fix that.

What may help is again continuity. Breaking the team up just means starting over. I would rather give this team it's window of at least 2 more years before rebuilding. Why start early?

Many of us have mentioned TJ McConnell. I think he would have been a huge help here. And yes, I'd start him over Allen.

[Superbone]

It shows a total lack of patience. We built through the draft and got some amazing talent, went to the Championship and then decided the team would never go further and retooled. Everyone loved Bridges. He was a great team player. He was a great defender and could shoot the three. We got a decent return on him and then he went on to being the leading scorer on his new team. That bubble team grew up as players together and developed a bond. Great chemistry.

We almost got there before and traded Marion for an aging Shaq hoping that would push us over the top.
Fail

We tried this huge gamble of getting three superstars and mortgaged the future for now. They haven’t developed a lot of chemistry. Would another year solidify them or would it just be the same? I think they have gambled a lot to bring about this team. I think breaking it up after they lose in the playoffs would be just another knee jerk reaction that doesn’t bring us any closer to a Championship.

Yep, we blew it with our championship team. Gave up on them way too soon. The Crowder fiasco didn't help and a lot of that is on Monty apparently. We should have kept our core and found another point guard to take over for Paul. Paul could have even stayed on and played the role he plays at Golden State now. And I hate to say it, but one change to a mistake that was made would have fixed all of this and we would have had a great, wide championship window with a team that we adore. It involved the draft. Starts with H and ends with n.

I don't know all the details but this alone should probably get Jones fired.

[ShelC]

Every GM misses. Jones still turned the entire org around almost from the moment he took over. He laid the foundation and he put together a contending roster through the draft, free agent moves and trades. He hasn't been perfect, but maybe the people around/above him haven't helped.

Let's see if history repeats itself - Bryan Colangelo laid the foundation for the contending 7SOL teams and the new owner came in and got rid of him, looking to hire his own people and make his own mark on the organization.

[Superbone]

Every GM misses. Jones still turned the entire org around almost from the moment he took over. He laid the foundation and he put together a contending roster through the draft, free agent moves and trades. He hasn't been perfect, but maybe the people around/above him haven't helped.

Let's see if history repeats itself - Bryan Colangelo laid the foundation for the contending 7SOL teams and the new owner came in and got rid of him, looking to hire his own people and make his own mark on the organization.

Good points also Shel. And we weren't the only franchise to pass on he who will not be named. It will be interesting to see what happens. Probably a lot depends on this postseason.

[Superbone]

We are talking about doing this after failing next year by the way…there is not really room to be patient around a Booker/KD core. KD is 35. If we went out with a whimper 3 years of KD/Booker, do you think being patient is the key?

This is a great point too. I think we only have one more year of KD at his current level. It will be interesting to see how his game progresses with his age. Do we get a Steve Nash or a Chris Paul?

[Split T]

What constituted giving up on the championship team? We brought it back in 2022 and got rolled by Dallas…we brought it back again and then traded for Durant mid-season. I think in hindsight you could say we shouldn’t have made the KD trade, but not because we didn’t give the former team enough time. They were absolutely not winning anything.

I have no regrets for the moves we made over the last 1.5 years…they haven’t worked out like I wanted(obviously) but I don’t think there was a better alternative at the time. Maybe we should have gone harder after Kyrie…he’s playing very nicely with Luka

[Cap]

We are talking about doing this after failing next year by the way…there is not really room to be patient around a Booker/KD core. KD is 35. If we went out with a whimper 3 years of KD/Booker, do you think being patient is the key?

This is a great point too. I think we only have one more year of KD at his current level. It will be interesting to see how his game progresses with his age. Do we get a Steve Nash or a Chris Paul?

Nash and Paul both fell off a cliff at 37. In Paul’s case, literally on his 37th birthday. It was eerie.

[The Bobster]

Paul aged like a carton of milk - one day he was great, a couple of days later he wasn't. It didn't happen gradually.

And Paul getting old is what shut the window for this team - he was the one driving the bus. That 4th quarter invicibility they had disappeared along with him.

[Split T]

So we still got 1 more year for KD

[Superbone]

What constituted giving up on the championship team? We brought it back in 2022 and got rolled by Dallas…we brought it back again and then traded for Durant mid-season. I think in hindsight you could say we shouldn’t have made the KD trade, but not because we didn’t give the former team enough time. They were absolutely not winning anything.

I have no regrets for the moves we made over the last 1.5 years…they haven’t worked out like I wanted(obviously) but I don’t think there was a better alternative at the time. Maybe we should have gone harder after Kyrie…he’s playing very nicely with Luka

Had our best record ever in 2022. Sure, we got rolled but make adjustments, not wholesale changes. Change coaches at that time. Avoid the Crowder issue. We gave up too soon on that team with the best record in the NBA. And then gutted it near the end of the next season.

[Split T]

We didn’t really make any wholesale changes though..what did we do summer of 2022? Nothing really, just flirted with KD and upset Crowder. Other than that we brought back the same team and they didn’t look like contenders.

I think there’s an argument that we should have done more and obviously could’ve handled the Crowder situation better, but I still maintain we weren’t going anywhere. CP3 was no longer a star…it was Booker and solid role players. We had a 2nd round ceiling. Are you saying we shouldn’t have traded for KD?

[The Bobster]

I don't think having Crowder onbord would have made a lot of difference, but it was cetainly a sign that there was friction between Monty and some of the players (most notably Crowder and Ayton). When Williams didn't show up for the Ayton re-signing, it was another clear sign.

That Finals team had everything fall the right way for them until the Finals, but they showed the next year that they were a championship contender until they decided to take their foot off the gas. And they never got their mojo back after that.

[Wally_West]

I still think the main problem is Vogel. He’s just not a good fit, a defensive minded coach who is coaching an offensive minded team. It’s the terry porter situation all over again. I don’t think he toxic the way Terry Porter was, Vogel seems like a nice guy but for whatever reason team doesn’t seem to fuck with him and he doesn’t seem to know how push right buttons on this team. It’s time to move on.


Regarding the roster? I don’t think we need to make major roster changes. I think we have a good foundation so we should be adding not subtracting any core roster spots. Our priority should absolutely be keeping Grayson and Royce. I like to keep Bol too but wouldn’t surprise me if a team gives him better offer than we can but it’d be cool if he stayed.

I’m okay with keeping Nurk but id absolutely would be exploring his trade value. EG is fine, he’s minimum contract after all so I’m okay with keeping him but I’d ultimately hope we could give his minutes to a either a guard or wing that can help with point of attack defense or guarding bigger wings. I also think at this point, a healthy Damion Lee probably could give us similar production offensively.

Ewwwbanks needs to go, he fucking sucks. Get him off my team.

[Superbone]

We didn’t really make any wholesale changes though..what did we do summer of 2022? Nothing really, just flirted with KD and upset Crowder. Other than that we brought back the same team and they didn’t look like contenders.

I think there’s an argument that we should have done more and obviously could’ve handled the Crowder situation better, but I still maintain we weren’t going anywhere. CP3 was no longer a star…it was Booker and solid role players. We had a 2nd round ceiling. Are you saying we shouldn’t have traded for KD?

Yes. Not for the haul we gave away.

[Superbone]

I still think the main problem is Vogel. He’s just not a good fit, a defensive minded coach who is coaching an offensive minded team. It’s the terry porter situation all over again. I don’t think he toxic the way Terry Porter was, Vogel seems like a nice guy but for whatever reason team doesn’t seem to fuck with him and he doesn’t seem to know how push right buttons on this team. It’s time to move on.

Terry Porter it is not. I keep seeing this and shake my head every time. He was absolutely a horrible, horrible coach.

[Split T]

We didn’t really make any wholesale changes though..what did we do summer of 2022? Nothing really, just flirted with KD and upset Crowder. Other than that we brought back the same team and they didn’t look like contenders.

I think there’s an argument that we should have done more and obviously could’ve handled the Crowder situation better, but I still maintain we weren’t going anywhere. CP3 was no longer a star…it was Booker and solid role players. We had a 2nd round ceiling. Are you saying we shouldn’t have traded for KD?

Yes. Not for the haul we gave away.

That’s fair…what would you have done instead? Let’s say Brooklyn held firm on their demands…just rolled with the same team and made no changes at the deadline?

[Carno]

I still don't think the lack of point guard is the problem. Suns could not and cannot get a star point guard...period. Not gonna happen. You all seem to want a young Chris Paul. He doesn't exist. A middling PG isn't going to help. I keep asking those of you who keep lamenting the lack of point guard how the Suns can get one that will make a difference, and not one single lamenter has offered a viable candidate. If the Suns had a point guard, he would only bring the ball up and pass to Booker or Durant. Then he would sit in the corner. The PG won't matter when KD is passing (in traffic) to a cutting Eubanks 8 times in a row. (For the record, I was vocal about keeping Cam Payne, who is about the best PG the Suns could have hoped for. Do any of you wish the Suns were starting Cam Payne instead of Grayson Allen?)

"The problem," imo, is more related to Saucy's take that the team lacks heart, though this is too simplistic. The team doesn't play hard and makes stupid decisions (particularly the stars). I also think more player movement and screens would help. A PG doesn't fix that.

What may help is again continuity. Breaking the team up just means starting over. I would rather give this team it's window of at least 2 more years before rebuilding. Why start early?

Many of us have mentioned TJ McConnell. I think he would have been a huge help here. And yes, I'd start him over Allen.

Need more than just throwing out a name. Propose a VIABLE scenario where the Suns could acquire him, where both Indiana and Phoenix would agree.

And for the record, I don't believe McConnell would help.

[Split T]

McConnell would be fine in a 18 minute backup role. He’s not a Grayson Allen replacement…at best he’s a EG replacement for a different bench guard.

[Carno]

I'll restate. I like McConnel as the backup PG. But the Suns can't get him for free (probably have to give up Grayson...Not a good trade), and it doesn't resolve the main issue that people are complaining about: a starting quality PG that can run the offense and steady the ship.

[Wally_West]

If we’re looking for a back up pg replacement for EG maybe the draft is the best option? Tyler Kolek or Jared McCain will potentially be around where we pick. There’s an outside shot Isiah Collier might fall?