2024 Suns Offseason: Where do we go from here?

[Superbone]

From what I'm reading, sounds like Jones is here to stay. What do you think we attempt to do this offseason in preparation for next season? Will Vogel be replaced? He claims to have Ishbia's blessing to stay on. Who should we target if he is replaced? Do we attempt a fire sale? Do we keep continuity and try to plug in the holes? I think most of us agree that point guard, defense, rebounding, and physical bigs are our biggest issues. (Other than that, everything is great!) Plus, we have our salary cap limitations on top of everything else.

Lay out what you think we should do and also what you think will happen if different.

[Drewsprocket]

RE Ishbia: it tracks to try and run it back with the big 3 and let JJ and Vogel cook with whatever adjustments and moves they can make. At the end of next year, blowing it up will nab us all the picks and youth we want—it also gives Ishbia his chance at putting his stamp on the team. I’d prefer to see Book a career sun. But I hope Ishbia gets serious about using the draft again. This team has had some real misses in the draft that has only added our misery—Jackson, Len, Ayton, and Stix.

[Cap]

We are not in a position to contend. We are not in a position to rebuild. We do not have the kind of executives who can dig us out of this very deep hole. The Suns are not going to contend for a title for a long, long, time. Just get used to watching them win as many games as they can each year and shrugging it off when the season ends.

[Mori Chu]

We *should* trade KD. But we won't. So if we focus on what we are actually willing to do, I have some hopes:

- Fire Vogel. He isn't the right fit for this roster. Bring in Lue if he gets fired, else Mike Budenholzer or somebody who can get these guys to play with more structure on both ends of the floor, particularly improving their defense.

- Ask Beal to take one for the team and be our 6th man. After the stinker of Game 4 he should be willing to consider it. It's what we need, to spread out his scoring and improve the starting lineup.

- Re-sign Bol Bol for a cheap contract. Promise him under the table that he'll get a raise if he sticks around.

- Draft BPA. I'm fine with Edey, or anybody who can defend at their position.

- Aggressively pursue a starting PG in free agency and trades this summer. I wish we could convince some veteran like (gasp) Westbrook or Harden or somebody like that, who could run the offense and take pressure off of Book and KD. I'd also love somebody like TJ McConnell in trade. Other ideas, probably can't afford some of these guys: Spencer Dinwiddie? Markelle Fultz? Kyle Lowry? Reggie Jackson? Cam Payne? Killian Hayes?

- Restock the bench with smart players who can defend. Possible names: Nic Batum? Stix? Daniel Theis? Bizzy Biyombo?

[3TheHardaway]

What I'd like to happen:
- Somehow, some way, some team wants to add Brad Beal (Orlando? Miami)
- Size, size, and more size

Possible avenues for Beal:

Beal to ORL, Isaac/Filler (WCJ would be great but Beal isn't gonna command that) to PHX (they have silly amounts of cap room, and need scoring help)

or



Brooklyn gets to move off Simmons, Cam (doesn't seem to be a good fit, buyers remorse after his contract), and pair Mikal with a #1 scorer
Miami gets their reliable 3rd option/scoring guard
Atlanta gets cap relief in a year, and Herro can command a tank/rebuild
We get a better fitting starting center, and while Cam isn't a true 4, he'd be a dramatic depth upgrade.

We'd want to move Nurkic in this scenario given what Capela makes; his market is even less robust in terms of interested teams but a more readily tradeable contract.

We'd have to get creative in terms of finding a suitable PG. Davion Mitchell would be a great prototype in terms of perimeter defense, ball handling, some distribution (and his salary equals Nas). CP3 when he's cut could be had. TJ McConnel still exists but is unlikely.

Alternatviely, if we gamble on Bronny to acquire LeDad, we wouldn't need much in terms of a PG. Lebron fixes a ton of issue (Size, distribution, leadership) but is likely a pipe dream, and likely not a great use of #22 pick given the tremendous lack of young, affordable talent to develop.

I recognize the above is far from cohesive, but the best way to build a team around our actual usable pieces would be:

Mitchell-Book-KD-(Cam J/LBJ/Issac) - Capela/similar defensive rim running 5 (Nic Richards, WCJ)
Bench: Grayson-Royce-Bol-#22 (ideally large wing, but BPA should be the strategy), Okogie, Anyone but Drew

In terms of coaching? Frank seems to have lost KD, he's gotta go.
Sam Cassell could be interesting (yes not a popular guy in Phoenix but is what it is. Bud is available. Ty Lue is the dream but I don't see LAC letting him go unless they collapse and quit on him.

As to what I believe will happen?
Frank is fired. Beal is shopped but no one whom he'd waive to NTC bites. Nurkic is shopped, perhaps Nic Richards could be had given Charlottle being aimless otherwise. One of Beal or Grayson is appropriately moved to the bench. We acquire a less than stellar 3/4 to stick next to KD. Perhaps some more size up front plus continuity allows the Beal/Booker backcourt to work. We draft a wing who maybe improves throughout the year. 2nd round exit in 2025.

I hope I'm wrong. I just think that the only way to improve this team and surround Booker/KD with complementary pieces is via trading Beal, and that possibility just seems incredible remote.

We decided to go all in with a pair of Kings, and prayed that we'd strike gold on the river. That didn't happen. This next offseason is going to be pivotal to how we utilize Bookers prime years.

[Cap]

Draft BPA. Sign the best vet min players you can. Run it back. Don’t fire Vogel unless a better replacement is available. Take calls on KD and Book, but don’t fire sale them.

[AmareIsGod]

What I'd like to happen:
- Somehow, some way, some team wants to add Brad Beal (Orlando? Miami)
- Size, size, and more size

Possible avenues for Beal:

Beal to ORL, Isaac/Filler (WCJ would be great but Beal isn't gonna command that) to PHX (they have silly amounts of cap room, and need scoring help)

or



Brooklyn gets to move off Simmons, Cam (doesn't seem to be a good fit, buyers remorse after his contract), and pair Mikal with a #1 scorer
Miami gets their reliable 3rd option/scoring guard
Atlanta gets cap relief in a year, and Herro can command a tank/rebuild
We get a better fitting starting center, and while Cam isn't a true 4, he'd be a dramatic depth upgrade.

We'd want to move Nurkic in this scenario given what Capela makes; his market is even less robust in terms of interested teams but a more readily tradeable contract.

We'd have to get creative in terms of finding a suitable PG. Davion Mitchell would be a great prototype in terms of perimeter defense, ball handling, some distribution (and his salary equals Nas). CP3 when he's cut could be had. TJ McConnel still exists but is unlikely.

Alternatviely, if we gamble on Bronny to acquire LeDad, we wouldn't need much in terms of a PG. Lebron fixes a ton of issue (Size, distribution, leadership) but is likely a pipe dream, and likely not a great use of #22 pick given the tremendous lack of young, affordable talent to develop.

I recognize the above is far from cohesive, but the best way to build a team around our actual usable pieces would be:

Mitchell-Book-KD-(Cam J/LBJ/Issac) - Capela/similar defensive rim running 5 (Nic Richards, WCJ)
Bench: Grayson-Royce-Bol-#22 (ideally large wing, but BPA should be the strategy), Okogie, Anyone but Drew

In terms of coaching? Frank seems to have lost KD, he's gotta go.
Sam Cassell could be interesting (yes not a popular guy in Phoenix but is what it is. Bud is available. Ty Lue is the dream but I don't see LAC letting him go unless they collapse and quit on him.

As to what I believe will happen?
Frank is fired. Beal is shopped but no one whom he'd waive to NTC bites. Nurkic is shopped, perhaps Nic Richards could be had given Charlottle being aimless otherwise. One of Beal or Grayson is appropriately moved to the bench. We acquire a less than stellar 3/4 to stick next to KD. Perhaps some more size up front plus continuity allows the Beal/Booker backcourt to work. We draft a wing who maybe improves throughout the year. 2nd round exit in 2025.

I hope I'm wrong. I just think that the only way to improve this team and surround Booker/KD with complementary pieces is via trading Beal, and that possibility just seems incredible remote.

We decided to go all in with a pair of Kings, and prayed that we'd strike gold on the river. That didn't happen. This next offseason is going to be pivotal to how we utilize Bookers prime years.

I would make that trade to get rid of Beal.

[3TheHardaway]

I would make that trade to get rid of Beal.

I think PHX would, Brooklyn probably would (shortsighted move for a big name is definitely in Tsai's playbook), MIA is maybe if they still like Brad, Atlanta would need some serious draft compensation via Brooklyn (and would need to fully embrace the hard reset).

[Mori Chu]

I like that trade proposal but ATL would probably say no unless they get a wash of picks.

[The Bobster]

Draft BPA. Sign the best vet min players you can. Run it back. Don’t fire Vogel unless a better replacement is available. Take calls on KD and Book, but don’t fire sale them.

I agree with this, but I think Vogel may have lost the team already if the reports we've read are true. If they keep him, they need to hire an assistant with a clear plan on how to make the offense run more smoothly. Having Young leave gives them the opportunity to do that.

[iLLmatic]

Fire Jones, Fire Vogel, hire away Sam Presti, let him pick the coach, trade everyone away and start from the bottom lol. I'm only half kidding. Ideally, I want to see Vogel fired, Jones fired, hire a GM who knows how to construct a team properly and knows how to identify talent, and let him hire the coach. There needs to be a rebuild of some sort, I'm not sure how far we go with it but I'm not against trading Durant and Beal at this point. Booker is hanging by a thin thread for me.

[TOO]

I think Vogel goes, they make a run at Lue and the Jones uses his connections to go after LeBron.

[specialsauce]

For those saying keep Frank: name one thing he seemed to be good at this year besides consistently beating ineffective players/rotations/schemes to death?

Offense identity- nope

Defense identity- nope

Rotational management- nope (Eubanks??? No chance for Thad?? Bol Bol hate..)

Adjustments? - nope

Fourth quarters were historically bad and full of panic

Schemes against certain players/teams/etc? Never saw it

Player buy-in? Nope

Player development? Nope

We were bottom of the barrel in 3PAs

So you would think that's because we played big right? Nope were consistently out-rebounded.

We were a small team who couldn't shoot and played slow. Wtf.

There's no world in which Vogel can keep this job. He gotta go.

[Split T]

Well there’s this:

[Gladiator]

Interesting. I don’t think Eubanks is completely useless but you have to use him in the right situations and the right ways rather than relying on him to be a core 6th/7th guy in the rotation.

[TOO]

Well there’s this:

Probably means that Vogel won't be either

[BKinSJC]

It felt like none of the minimum guys were consistently put in a good position to overachieve this year. They were mostly marginal players but development and consistency in their roles and playing time was basically nonexistent.

Really, who on the team had a good year? Allen until he got hurt. Nurk for 50 games or so until he dropped off, and he was almost unplayable in the playoffs. KD and Book mostly had good numbers but the negatives almost outweigh the positives in their seasons. Beal was hurt, confused by his role and never fit in.

If a few guys don’t fit and have subpar years, that’s just basketball. If it’s almost everyone, then I think it’s on coaching either not recognizing how to put people in a position to maximize what they can do, or trying to do that but not being able effectively communicate and lead. I think it was both with this coaching staff.

[TOO]

It felt like none of the minimum guys were consistently put in a good position to overachieve this year. They were mostly marginal players but development and consistency in their roles and playing time was basically nonexistent.

Really, who on the team had a good year? Allen until he got hurt. Nurk for 50 games or so until he dropped off, and he was almost unplayable in the playoffs. KD and Book mostly had good numbers but the negatives almost outweigh the positives in their seasons. Beal was hurt, confused by his role and never fit in.

If a few guys don’t fit and have subpar years, that’s just basketball. If it’s almost everyone, then I think it’s on coaching either not recognizing how to put people in a position to maximize what they can do, or trying to do that but not being able effectively communicate and lead. I think it was both with this coaching staff.

It's really feels like Vogel wanted one thing, Young wanted one thing and the players didn't buy in to either thing. Just a full on mess.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I agree and I think that's on Ishbia.

He tried to make everyone happy by compartmentalizing the coaching and player roles, but it just doesn't work like that in sports. There must be a hierarchy with the head coach at the top and the whole organization viewed Vogel as a defensive coordinator more than anything else.

[TOO]

Need a no nonsense coach, maybe even one that will ride the players and make them uncomfortable. Budenholzer?