2024 Suns Offseason: Where do we go from here?

[Flagrant Fowl]

For those saying keep Frank: name one thing he seemed to be good at this year besides consistently beating ineffective players/rotations/schemes to death?

Spoiler: show/hide

Offense identity- nope

Defense identity- nope

Rotational management- nope (Eubanks??? No chance for Thad?? Bol Bol hate..)

Adjustments? - nope

Fourth quarters were historically bad and full of panic

Schemes against certain players/teams/etc? Never saw it

Player buy-in? Nope

Player development? Nope

We were bottom of the barrel in 3PAs

So you would think that's because we played big right? Nope were consistently out-rebounded.

We were a small team who couldn't shoot and played slow. Wtf.

There's no world in which Vogel can keep this job. He gotta go.

I'm not at all satisfied with Vogel, but this is overly critical to me.

Offense - Not his responsibility which was clear from the start of training camp. Kevin Young and the players deserve more blame than Vogel.

Defense - It was ugly to start the season, but the team defensive rating steadily improved throughout the season. It dipped in March due to a few ugly games, but in general, the players started performing pretty well in his scheme despite their obvious limitations.

Rotation - This is armchair quarterbacking stuff. It's always easy for us to say he should've played this guy over that guy. Would giving Young all of Eubanks minutes yielded better results? I'm highly skeptical of that. Bol got steady rotation minutes once he settled down. IDK why he didn't get a chance earlier in the playoffs, but he was instantly bullied by Gobert and Reid when he did so...?

Adjustments - After the rough start of the season, I thought they were pretty well prepared for each matchup defensively. Contesting shots was an issue for a while and that's on the players.

Fourth quarters - Again, that was Kevin Young's and players responsibility based on how this was all organized by Ishbia.

Schemes - His defensive schemes in the second half of the season were working well enough.

Player buy-in - It wasn't there for whatever reason. I think it's because he was viewed as HC only in title, but who knows?

Player development - Bol Bol went from being a nightmare to actually productive. That's development. Besides him, there isn't a young player on the roster with potential to develop. IDK what you want from him in this regard.

3PA - Kevin Young and the players.

The Suns were at a physical and athletic disadvantage almost every night. I think that's one reason why Eubanks kept getting on the court, no one else was bringing any force besides him and Nurkic.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Need a no nonsense coach, maybe even one that will ride the players and make them uncomfortable. Budenholzer?

I'd knock on Dan Hurley's door.

[Split T]

Eubanks was the only other player on the roster that could actually play the 5 in Vogel’s base system. I think he should’ve abandoned his base system, but I get it

[BKinSJC]

Need a no nonsense coach, maybe even one that will ride the players and make them uncomfortable. Budenholzer?

I'd knock on Dan Hurley's door.

I really like this idea. I don't watch a ton of college basketball but I watched UConn's run, and while they did have very good talent, they consistently looked like they were *far* better than everybody that they played. His offense is pro-level complex and his players execute it really well and he's also a hardass about defense and intensity. I think it's very possible that he could be the next great coach at the NBA level, too.

Now, would NBA stars respect him and give him a chance coming up right out of college? That's always the risk, but he's got back-to-back championships and a ton of success to point to.

[specialsauce]

For those saying keep Frank: name one thing he seemed to be good at this year besides consistently beating ineffective players/rotations/schemes to death?

Spoiler: show/hide

Offense identity- nope

Defense identity- nope

Rotational management- nope (Eubanks??? No chance for Thad?? Bol Bol hate..)

Adjustments? - nope

Fourth quarters were historically bad and full of panic

Schemes against certain players/teams/etc? Never saw it

Player buy-in? Nope

Player development? Nope

We were bottom of the barrel in 3PAs

So you would think that's because we played big right? Nope were consistently out-rebounded.

We were a small team who couldn't shoot and played slow. Wtf.

There's no world in which Vogel can keep this job. He gotta go.

I'm not at all satisfied with Vogel, but I am erect when you say his name

Fixed it

[Flagrant Fowl]

I read/heard somewhere that he only wants to coach the Knicks or that it's his dream job. Something like that.

Anyway, I think he'd bound for the NBA sooner than later and Ishbia should be proactive with this hire. He tried the re-tread make everyone happy approach and it failed.

[Flagrant Fowl]

For those saying keep Frank: name one thing he seemed to be good at this year besides consistently beating ineffective players/rotations/schemes to death?

Spoiler: show/hide

Offense identity- nope

Defense identity- nope

Rotational management- nope (Eubanks??? No chance for Thad?? Bol Bol hate..)

Adjustments? - nope

Fourth quarters were historically bad and full of panic

Schemes against certain players/teams/etc? Never saw it

Player buy-in? Nope

Player development? Nope

We were bottom of the barrel in 3PAs

So you would think that's because we played big right? Nope were consistently out-rebounded.

We were a small team who couldn't shoot and played slow. Wtf.

There's no world in which Vogel can keep this job. He gotta go.

I'm not at all satisfied with Vogel, but I am erect when you say his name

Fixed it

Weird. As always, thanks for your thoughtful insight.

[specialsauce]

For those saying keep Frank: name one thing he seemed to be good at this year besides consistently beating ineffective players/rotations/schemes to death?

Spoiler: show/hide

Offense identity- nope

Defense identity- nope

Rotational management- nope (Eubanks??? No chance for Thad?? Bol Bol hate..)

Adjustments? - nope

Fourth quarters were historically bad and full of panic

Schemes against certain players/teams/etc? Never saw it

Player buy-in? Nope

Player development? Nope

We were bottom of the barrel in 3PAs

So you would think that's because we played big right? Nope were consistently out-rebounded.

We were a small team who couldn't shoot and played slow. Wtf.

There's no world in which Vogel can keep this job. He gotta go.

I'm not at all satisfied with Vogel, but I am erect when you say his name

Fixed it

Weird. As always, thanks for your thoughtful insight.

Well, you said you're not a fan and then you spun and damage controlled everything that went wrong about this season. Are you his publicist or a fan of his? Cause you're definitely satisfied by the job he did based on your response lol.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I didn't spin everything and put blame on him where I think it's justified.

My response is directed the idea that Vogel was the biggest issue with this team. I only responded to your initial post because I thought it ignores a lot of context.

[TOO]

Need a no nonsense coach, maybe even one that will ride the players and make them uncomfortable. Budenholzer?

I'd knock on Dan Hurley's door.

Throw the bag at that dude, or Nate Oats, shoot ALL THE 3s.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Mat Ishbia: THIS IS FOR YOU!!!!

Dan Hurley...get it done!!!!

This seems to make sense...a first good move for the summer!

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Ummm...I hope this isn't true...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/400 ... port-owner

[Gladiator]

Ummm...I hope this isn't true...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/400 ... port-owner

Quote is prior to game 4, which is key. Ishbia isn’t going to tell Vogel he’s gone, or that he’s got doubts or whatever, while they’re still playing in the playoffs. So I wouldn’t read much into that one way or the other.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

PG with our pick this year possible? One option...the look of things it would have to be someone like Tyler Kolek...tbd...we're at 22 so its finding the pearl, if its going to do anything for us...

[TOO]

Kolek is probably a 2nd rounder.

[Mori Chu]

There are several gossip articles about the Suns. Not sure how much stock to put into articles like this.

[Gladiator]

There are several gossip articles about the Suns. Not sure how much stock to put into articles like this.

This one wouldn’t surprise to be fair.

[ShelC]

I take reports like those with a grain of salt. It wouldn't surprise me and it's been a fear of mine from Day 1 but who knows who's saying what or if there's anyone behind the rumors at all.

[Mori Chu]

A lot of these articles feel like their source is KD or somebody very close to KD. There's an article about how KD didn't feel utilized properly in our offense. That basically has to come from KD or someone in his orbit.

[Split T]

That stuff came out during the season too. He clearly had issues with it.

I’m not sure what he wants the offense to be. Data shows we weren’t actually a heavy pick n roll team like KD says.

KD was bottom 3 in the nba in post up efficiency, so that better not be what he wants(funny enough Nurkic and Ayton are the other 2 in the bottom 3). I heard someone say he wants to play like Dirk…so give him the ball in the high post and let him work…don’t love that in today’s game either.

He just needs to become an off ball shooter. Run him off screens. Let him attack off advantages. He’s in the portion of his career where he can’t be the featured player anymore. Use him like the Jazz use Lauri