Suns News: Week 14 1/26-1/31

[Mori Chu]

My dissatisfaction with Archie is not based on one post-game quote. I have a lot of different concerns about him:

* His jump shot isn't where it should be.

* He's great at attacking the basket, but then when the drive doesn't turn out well, he hasn't consistently shown the vision and passing necessary to dish it to an open man.

* There have been multiple reports that he doesn't work hard on his game. Doesn't show up early for practice, doesn't stay late working on his shot, etc.

* He *has* complained about his lack of playing time, if I recall. He has had a few quotes and tweets and that sort of thing.

* His throwing in with the Morrii is not a good sign. The Morrii have made posts about Archie after Marcus left, implying that Goodwin doesn't want to be here, isn't happy, will want to leave ASAP, etc.

* The "I couldn't coach him" comment from his former coach.

* Hornacek's unwillingness to play Archie, despite lots of backcourt injuries, has to mean something. Horny is around the guy a lot, sees him in practice and warmups, knows a lot about his game, his IQ, his willingness to listen and work within the system. And he wasn't playing the guy. I think he probably had some issues we didn't know about.

* Defensively he still has a long way to go.

...

I could probably think of more but that is what comes to me at the moment. None of this means that I think we should get rid of him, but it does make me hesitate a little when he has 1-2 good games and people start getting excited about him and his potential.

[SwingMan]

My dissatisfaction with Archie is not based on one post-game quote. I have a lot of different concerns about him:

* His jump shot isn't where it should be.

* He's great at attacking the basket, but then when the drive doesn't turn out well, he hasn't consistently shown the vision and passing necessary to dish it to an open man.

* There have been multiple reports that he doesn't work hard on his game. Doesn't show up early for practice, doesn't stay late working on his shot, etc.

* He *has* complained about his lack of playing time, if I recall. He has had a few quotes and tweets and that sort of thing.

* His throwing in with the Morrii is not a good sign. The Morrii have made posts about Archie after Marcus left, implying that Goodwin doesn't want to be here, isn't happy, will want to leave ASAP, etc.

* The "I couldn't coach him" comment from his former coach.

* Hornacek's unwillingness to play Archie, despite lots of backcourt injuries, has to mean something. Horny is around the guy a lot, sees him in practice and warmups, knows a lot about his game, his IQ, his willingness to listen and work within the system. And he wasn't playing the guy. I think he probably had some issues we didn't know about.

* Defensively he still has a long way to go.

...

I could probably think of more but that is what comes to me at the moment. None of this means that I think we should get rid of him, but it does make me hesitate a little when he has 1-2 good games and people start getting excited about him and his potential.

Show me these "multiple reports" claiming he doesn't stay late, won't work on his shot etc., because I've heard nothing but the contrary - praising him for his work ethic and how he's one of if not the last one out of the gym right from jump street.

And we've already been over the bunk "I couldn't coach him" crap, which was actually Calipari yelling "I can't coach these guys" to the *whole Kentucky team* after a 30 point blowout loss.

And, as far as playing time, Booker and Warren weren't getting shit for run either until the rash of injuries and Morris' constant dogging - I suppose they're lost causes too, right? Yeah, it couldn't be Hornacek, whose rotations *we all* know have been picture perfect.

And, let's not go the defense route. Archie's had limited run and experience until recently - Knight can't contain a damn turtle and this is his 5th damn season of 31+ mpg run, yet Archie's *still* better on that end as well as overall court vision

Get on him about his jumper if you must, but man - get the facts straight on the rest. Again, unfounded.

Oh, P.S. - *now* all of the sudden you're going to put stock and concern into what fucking Marcus Morris has to say? I'll say it again: Tainted judgement just because of his friendship with the Morris twins. Have you seen Archie dog it like fucking Markieff has all season?

Unfounded - all of it.....

[INFORMER]

I dont think we have anything the clippers would want in a Blake trade.

Agreed.

I think they would want Ibaka, Porzingis, Favors, Horford (who is so mediocre) or Love.

Inf, why are you so down on Horford?

He's too content to just launch midrange jumpers and too often isn't strong enough on the boards. He's not bad, he just isn't great. He is more of a super role player than he is a top 2 players on a contender.

[Mori Chu]

Show me these "multiple reports" claiming he doesn't stay late, won't work on his shot etc., because I've heard nothing but the contrary - praising him for his work ethic and how he's one of if not the last one out of the gym right from jump street.

And we've already been over the bunk "I couldn't coach him" crap, which was actually Calipari yelling "I can't coach these guys" to the *whole Kentucky team* after a 30 point blowout loss.

And, as far as playing time, Booker and Warren weren't getting shit for run either until the rash of injuries and Morris' constant dogging - I suppose they're lost causes too, right? Yeah, it couldn't be Hornacek, whose rotations *we all* know have been picture perfect.

And, let's not go the defense route. Archie's had limited run and experience until recently - Knight can't contain a damn turtle and this is his 5th damn season of 31+ mpg run, yet Archie's *still* better on that end as well as overall court vision

Get on him about his jumper if you must, but man - get the facts straight on the rest. Again, unfounded.

Oh, P.S. - *now* all of the sudden you're going to put stock and concern into what fucking Marcus Morris has to say? I'll say it again: Tainted judgement just because of his friendship with the Morris twins. Have you seen Archie dog it like fucking Markieff has all season?

Unfounded - all of it.....

I can't find quotes about the practice / work ethic stuff in a quick Googling, so I may need to concede that point; but here are some links and quotes about most of the rest of it.

Archie complaining about his role:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/46 ... ran-dragic

Archie with some law trouble:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /12367271/
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/archie-go ... AvUgQPA.97

Archie and Marcus Morris bagging on the team on Twitter:

http://arizonasports.com/story/307097/f ... -old-team/

More tweets (including Archie saying "@MookMorris2 tired of knocking on the door Ima kick it down feel me" and, in response to Morris' "@A1Laflare10 they will keep working. If not there somewhere else.. U ready though" he says "fasho" (for sure):

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... -with-suns

Archie being in the doghouse with Calipari:



http://lostlettermen.com/calipari-calls ... coachable/

During Saturday’s ugly 88–58 blowout loss at Tennessee, reporters covering the game overheard Calipari yelling “I can’t coach you!” to freshman guard Archie Goodwin as he headed to the bench. During a timeout late in the game, Coach Cal didn’t even speak to his players in the huddle. His rationale? “I’m not wasting my breath here,” he said afterwards. “(They’re) not listening.”

“We have a couple of guys who aren’t real coachable,” he also said. “You tell them what to do and they do their own thing.”

(This on the heels of Archie not following Coach's play on that game-winning shot.)

On Archie's defense:

http://arizonasports.com/story/411374/a ... enix-suns/

"– The other obvious deficiency is Goodwin’s ability to defend in pick-and-roll situations."

On his poor shooting:

"– According to Nylon Calculus, 46 percent of Goodwin’s opportunities are self-created but he shot just 40 percent on those attempts. Of the field goals he made 56 percent were unassisted, a higher number than established guards he played with last season — Brandon Knight and Goran Dragic. That would seem to say he forces things."

"His three-point shooting (29 percent overall) was worse when he was not guarded last year. He hit 27 percent when defenders were six feet away or more, according to Nylon Calculus. Opponents left Goodwin that open on 40 percent of his three-point attempts, a sign they did not consider him a threat."

More mouthing off about the organization:

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2015/06/28/p ... e-goodwin/

After the Suns traded for Reggie Bullock, a visibly frustrated Goodwin went as far as saying, “I don’t know what they’re doing,” in reference to the front office.

More about Archie's mediocre defense:

http://arizonasports.com/story/536820/t ... ping-game/

Improvements are also going to have to be made at the defensive end.

On the ball, Goodwin isn’t doing a consistent job of containing dribble-drives. He’s not getting low enough in his defensive stance and is also dying on screens.

It’s important for Goodwin to use smart positioning and his lateral quickness with his slight frame. A good on ball defender knows his scouting report, giving him the ability to anticipate moves rather than react to them.

There are more issues away from the ball too. He’s standing up straight the majority of the time, sometimes with his man one pass away. His arms dangle loosely rather than in a quick twitch position — Goodwin has a 6’9.5″ wingspan that he needs to learn how to use.

[SwingMan]

Wow - with that kind of reaching, you ought to be taking Len's place any moment now. LOL!

https://twitter.com/A1Laflare10/status/626974268702633984

That doesn't = bagging on the team, Mori - that means he's staying the hell out of it, like he ought to. Stop reading what's not there - serious.

Again, on the defense route, you're completely ignoring his lack of consistent run and experience - and yet he's still worlds better than Knight and his 5 seasons of 31+ mpg. And the article only lists one facet: pick-and-roll defense, for which he has to get stronger.

And, the "law trouble" was a non-issue, as charges were shaky at best and dropped, with no other incidents since. Conflate much?

And, duplicate much? You just posted links to two articles with the same damn quotes, yet you try to equate them into "mounting trouble" - meanwhile:

“Of course it is going to be frustrating for me, because I am a competitor,” Goodwin told Sporting News. “I have enough confidence in myself to believe I can play right now. A lot of guys, once they get here, they sort of feel like, ‘Well, it’s OK, I will get my opportunity eventually.’ That’s not me. I feel like I could be playing right now. In that sense, it is very frustrating.”

The Suns have a logjam at the guard position that isn't making anyone happy. Phoenix got Isaiah Thomas in a sign-and-trade with the Kings last summer, adding him to a group that already included Eric Bledsoe, Goran Dragic and Gerald Green. It drafted Tyler Ennis, signed guard Zoran Dragic (Goran's brother) and recently added another wing, Reggie Bullock, in a trade with the Clippers.

The moves puzzled Goodwin.

“I don’t know what they’re doing,” he said. “Honestly, I really don’t. I guess they know what they’re doing — I can just play ball and let them make the decisions. I don’t know what the purpose is for it, but there is nothing I can do about it.”

Goodwin said he understands that those are all NBA-quality players, and he does not want to create the impression that he thinks he should be ahead of them.

“I still want to stay professional,” Goodwin said. “We have a great team in Phoenix and we’re making a playoff push with those guys. With that being said, I am not going to dwell on it, I am going to be a positive guy. I don’t want those guys thinking I don’t want them to succeed — I do, with all my heart. From the standpoint of me being a competitor, yeah, it is frustrating, but I still understand what’s going on.”

Yeah - real cancerous, anti-team malcontent there.

And the Calipari crap was towards the whole team in the heat of a blowout loss - I wouldn't doubt he said something similar to each player he yanked to the bench during the game that night. Again, that's already been discussed.

Mori, please quit with the reaching, conflation, cherry-picking and conjecture by trying to read into stuff that was never there. I have no words to describe how hard you're trying to push a false narrative or why.

[Indy]

EJ says Archie is always there working hard. I'm going to take his word for it. As far as the rest, yeah, he does dumb things. Again, like 90% of the players in the league.

[SwingMan]

EJ says Archie is always there working hard. I'm going to take his word for it. As far as the rest, yeah, he does dumb things. Again, like 90% of the players in the league.

I just don't see what he's doing that's "dumb", though.

But, one thing is telling enough: Archie's outlasted Green and Bullock and could easily have been included in either of the Knight or Marcus Morris trades in place of Ennis or Bullock, respectively, as well as possibly enduring the team not picking up his 4th year option this past off-season, yet he's still here - through all that turmoil and all of the turnover, he still made the cut(s).

There's obviously something there that the team values.....

[Indy]

They value him but don't want to play him?

[SwingMan]

They value him but don't want to play him?

Same as Booker and Warren before the injury rash and Morris' dogging it?

[Danimal]

Feb 18 cant come fast enough. At least Goodwin playing and having some 20+ games and highlights may help in we trying to package a few players off. I just really want Morris and Tucker off this team by the deadline. Coach's lover affair with tucker is going to trample all over other players development and I don't really enjoy watching him play. If he was relegated to the bench that would be fine but he seems to be playing the most minutes out of anyone.

There seems to be so few trade rumours at the moment its killing me...I need that hope

[Indy]

Yeah the sad thing for me is that when PJ is playing within himself, at the 4, and for short stints, he is very good. We just try to take a guy like that and make him be our workhorse. Not good.

[Danimal]

the thing I don't get Indy is why coach is leaning on him so much. Yes grit and hustle but our results are horrible regardless of who we play. Besides the long term benefits, Wouldnt the fan base rather get behind the young guys and aren't they more marketable. If Hornacek had any interest in coaching this team in the future he should be trying to show that he can develop the young guys. That doesn't simply mean giving them a blank cheque to do as they please, but simply taking them out if the hustle isn't there, talk to the player and give them an all important 2nd chance. Trotting out a likely franchise worst season and stunting the young guys will just torpedo any hope he may have of coaching again - really wish he was our assistance coach instead.

[SwingMan]

Yeah the sad thing for me is that when PJ is playing within himself, at the 4, and for short stints, he is very good. We just try to take a guy like that and make him be our workhorse. Not good.

Agreed - PJ's at a point of a bench spark now because he can't be depended on to sustain a high level of play & energy. Age is catching up and, though the will might be there, the body just isn't cooperating.

[Mori Chu]

Swing, I like having you back, but I could do without the rude tone and the "I am laughing at you" emojis. I wish you could be more respectful when you don't agree with me. I took the time to try to find you some links to support my opinions on the subject. That doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but the abrasive tone of your response rubbed me the wrong way.

[JCSunsfan]

Haven't we heard that before?

People really need to chill out with all this negativism re Archie. Archie is a very young man. He's not saying ALL the right things, but at least give him the benefit of the doubt when he does say the right thing.

I'm happy Archie's playing. I don't know what the future holds for him. I hope it's very bright.

In spades, OE.

The Archie hate here is pure bullshit. From day one, all reports on him have been all about ass-busting hard work and commitment. Though his jumper still needs work, the guy, after not getting regular run so far in his career, *never once* complained.

And, *the one time* he gets consistent, extended run, he's asked to play completely out of position, so what does he do?

He goes for it, balls to the wall, even nailing a game winner to cherry-top a 24 point game against Atlanta during this recent stretch. And he even tries to own the team's performance, taking all the losses to heart - he stepped right the fuck up, taking it for the team when anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows that's nowhere near the case.

And yet there's *still* bitching.

And why is that? My take is the bitchers are tainted by the fact that Archie is friends with the Morris twins and that & that alone shades the judgement and fuels the hate.

Unpucker, kids - you're barking up the wrong tree.

I just don't like him. Some players you like, some you don't. Just the way it is. Call me a hater if you like.

I'd like to know - exactly what about him don't you like?

I know Mori's take is based on conjecture from a cherry-picked post-game statement taken out of context, but what's yours? Is it because Archie doesn't have Booker's personality?

Christ - here there's discussion of taking on Blake Griffin, yet there's apparent concerns about how *Archie* carries himself?

Sorry - everyone is entitled to their own take, but I just find all the hate and criticism towards Archie silly and unfounded. Especially after how he's stepped up during this painfully difficult stretch.....

I do not think he has the skill set to be effective long term. I do not think he is responsive to coaching. He has not improved his shooting. He seems quite immature. I do not think he has enough sense to be a contributing part of a truly competing team.

Just a few things. I will glad to admit I am wrong should the situation change.

[JCSunsfan]

Feb 18 cant come fast enough. At least Goodwin playing and having some 20+ games and highlights may help in we trying to package a few players off. I just really want Morris and Tucker off this team by the deadline. Coach's lover affair with tucker is going to trample all over other players development and I don't really enjoy watching him play. If he was relegated to the bench that would be fine but he seems to be playing the most minutes out of anyone.

There seems to be so few trade rumours at the moment its killing me...I need that hope

Dont get your hopes up. I could easily see Kieff on the team until summer.

[ShelC]

I'm still torn on Archie. Besides the physical tools (size, length, speed), I don't see a defined basketball player. I don't see a fluid perimeter scorer which means he most likely won't be an offensive threat who can break a defense down an pull up with shot. So that means he's a 3pt shooter or a penetration guard. I don't think he's a pure PG who will run a team and distribute and get 8-9 apg, and again, not a natural scorer who can be a full time 2.

If he can become a knockdown shooter, he'd be a perfect running mate for dominant scoring guards/fowards like Curry, DameLillard, LeBron, Harden where he can play off them but still grab the ball in transition and take it to the rim. He'd be like a bigger version of LB in that sense.

These aren't knocks, this isn't condemning him and his coachability or work ethic. Not saying he can't improve, but guys are what they are. He doesn't have the offensive fundamentals or moves to become a scorer. Some guys just don't have that. And while he's still young, it takes a while for guys to find their niche in the league. If that happens here, great. If not, hopefully we can get something back in a trade.

[SwingMan]

Swing, I like having you back, but I could do without the rude tone and the "I am laughing at you" emojis. I wish you could be more respectful when you don't agree with me. I took the time to try to find you some links to support my opinions on the subject. That doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but the abrasive tone of your response rubbed me the wrong way.

With all due respect Mori, please go back to your "safe zone" or ban me, then.

You've got the balls to enforce double standards here, yet whine about "abrasiveness"?

When I see bullshit, I call it out, here and elsewhere. I'm blunt and generally concise - that's not abrasiveness, that's Mori "thug is the new 'N' word" Chu being overly sensitive. And it's still a damn site better than I've been treated here politically in the past, so please spare me the whining, alright?

[SwingMan]

I'm still torn on Archie. Besides the physical tools (size, length, speed), I don't see a defined basketball player. I don't see a fluid perimeter scorer which means he most likely won't be an offensive threat who can break a defense down an pull up with shot. So that means he's a 3pt shooter or a penetration guard. I don't think he's a pure PG who will run a team and distribute and get 8-9 apg, and again, not a natural scorer who can be a full time 2.

If he can become a knockdown shooter, he'd be a perfect running mate for dominant scoring guards/fowards like Curry, DameLillard, LeBron, Harden where he can play off them but still grab the ball in transition and take it to the rim. He'd be like a bigger version of LB in that sense.

These aren't knocks, this isn't condemning him and his coachability or work ethic. Not saying he can't improve, but guys are what they are. He doesn't have the offensive fundamentals or moves to become a scorer. Some guys just don't have that. And while he's still young, it takes a while for guys to find their niche in the league. If that happens here, great. If not, hopefully we can get something back in a trade.

See, that's an evaluation I can get with.

He's shown no indication that we should give up on him - he's busting his ass and there's not much more we can ask of Archie. Only thing is, it's gonna take a different coach to help define his role.....

[Mori Chu]

With all due respect Mori, please go back to your "safe zone" or ban me, then.

You've got the balls to enforce double standards here, yet whine about "abrasiveness"?

When I see bullshit, I call it out, here and elsewhere. I'm blunt and generally concise - that's not abrasiveness, that's Mori "thug is the new 'N' word" Chu being overly sensitive. And it's still a damn site better than I've been treated here politically in the past, so please spare me the whining, alright?

As you wish. Banned.