Phx-Suns.net Vet League is up and running

[Shabazz]

If we’re going back to a redraft league can we please move to auction format for the draft? It’s so much more fun and fair (although snake drafts are better if a lot of people will be auto-drafting).

[pickle]

I don't get why any category is cheaper than any other, and if they are, why don't we advocate taking out rebounds to make the category count odd again? If we really care enough about the weight of the categories, then we can try to play a points based league, though personally I'm not a huge fan of that because it takes away the trading aspect of this game.

It doesn’t matter that much if you just look at it as a separate game than the real game. We all know the rules and can adjust accordingly, but it just makes some lesser players more valuable than they are in the real game.

And it doesn’t even have to be Booker vs Ayton, take Booker vs Clint Capela. Capela is almost always going to win rebounds, blocks, fg%, and TO against Booker. Booker will win points, ft%, 3pt, and assists. Steals is a toss up. Take TO out and Booker will almost always be better than Capela, keep them in and now it depends on the other players on your team who’s more valuable. I’m just saying I’d rather have a league where Booker is clearly the more valuable player.

My biggest issue is it just makes non creative bigs more valuable than they should be. Id rather have the smaller creative guards be more valuable and taking out TO does that. But it’s not that big of a deal to me, I’ll happily do 9-cat if that’s what people want. We maybe just need to do a poll, 8-cat vs 9-cat(with TO) vs 9-cat(with a new 9th category).

Split, I don't think Capela vs. Booker is a good comparison. Make it Capela vs. Clarkson... Capela would win fg, reb, blk, to, and Clarkson would win the other 5 categories. And obviously the full team is not just a simple player to player comparison, and turnover isn't there to just swing this to one type of player vs. another wildly. Yes there are players whose values are somewhat artificially inflated because they don't turn the ball over, but there are just as many players who are efficient despite being high usage guys and ranked highly because of it. Taking out turnovers basically helps guys like Harden and hurts guys like CP3. Other than really liking high usage players, I really don't see a fundamental reason why such an important part of the real game of basketball should be thrown out in a game of simulation.

[pickle]

If we’re going back to a redraft league can we please move to auction format for the draft? It’s so much more fun and fair (although snake drafts are better if a lot of people will be auto-drafting).

We already went back to redraft last year, and I am in on auction drafting.

[Split T]

My only issue with auction drafting is we’ll need to get a time that works for everyone to be present, might be tricky since so many are international. FF suggested, 14-17, which is my weekend on, so I’ll work 14-16th and would prefer 6 or later AZ time, but I know that’s probably middle of the night for some. I could do anytime on the 17th.

[Flagrant Fowl]

If we’re going back to a redraft league can we please move to auction format for the draft? It’s so much more fun and fair (although snake drafts are better if a lot of people will be auto-drafting).

The same 3-4 of us talk about an auction draft every year. There just isn't enough support for it as several members seem to like the more casual format. I'm also pretty sure the 3 new members have only played in leagues that used the 'Points' scoring system, so a new format and draft might be a bit too much.

[Split T]

I don't get why any category is cheaper than any other, and if they are, why don't we advocate taking out rebounds to make the category count odd again? If we really care enough about the weight of the categories, then we can try to play a points based league, though personally I'm not a huge fan of that because it takes away the trading aspect of this game.

It doesn’t matter that much if you just look at it as a separate game than the real game. We all know the rules and can adjust accordingly, but it just makes some lesser players more valuable than they are in the real game.

And it doesn’t even have to be Booker vs Ayton, take Booker vs Clint Capela. Capela is almost always going to win rebounds, blocks, fg%, and TO against Booker. Booker will win points, ft%, 3pt, and assists. Steals is a toss up. Take TO out and Booker will almost always be better than Capela, keep them in and now it depends on the other players on your team who’s more valuable. I’m just saying I’d rather have a league where Booker is clearly the more valuable player.

My biggest issue is it just makes non creative bigs more valuable than they should be. Id rather have the smaller creative guards be more valuable and taking out TO does that. But it’s not that big of a deal to me, I’ll happily do 9-cat if that’s what people want. We maybe just need to do a poll, 8-cat vs 9-cat(with TO) vs 9-cat(with a new 9th category).

Split, I don't think Capela vs. Booker is a good comparison. Make it Capela vs. Clarkson... Capela would win fg, reb, blk, to, and Clarkson would win the other 5 categories. And obviously the full team is not just a simple player to player comparison, and turnover isn't there to just swing this to one type of player vs. another wildly. Yes there are players whose values are somewhat artificially inflated because they don't turn the ball over, but there are just as many players who are efficient despite being high usage guys and ranked highly because of it. Taking out turnovers basically helps guys like Harden and hurts guys like CP3. Other than really liking high usage players, I really don't see a fundamental reason why such an important part of the real game of basketball should be thrown out in a game of simulation.

It’s just a personal preference…I think the fantasy rankings more closely resemble the real rankings when you don’t include turnovers. Yes taking them out hurts the high usage guys that take care of the ball a little bit(or I should say it doesn’t help them as much as the high usage turnover machines), but you can’t get it perfect.

Again, it’s not that big of a deal, I’ll play with turnovers if that’s what everyone wants, though I still think I’d prefer A/TO ratio, even if it duplicates assists a bit.

[Split T]

I used the hashtag site FF posted to see what changes using TO and not, here’s the guys that move up significantly:

Robert Williams, Myles Turner, Mikal, Rozier, JJJ, and Capela all move up over 10 spots. Capela moves up 25 spots.

Porzingis, Gobert, Allen, Vucevic, and Bamba move up 6-9 spots.

PG, Ja, Luka, Ingram, and Beal all drop 10+ spots.
Lillard, Garland, and Brown all drop 8-9 spots.

I’ll check later what using A/TO ratio does.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

I vpte no to auction draft. Leave it like its been the last 20 years.

[Shabazz]

Doing something just because it's always been done that way is an awful reason. Snake drafts are for when we were in Junior High.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

Let's just play regular fantasy league basketball and keep it simple so we don't have to hire an accountant just to play. All the weird rule changes you guys keep wanting to make every year makes people want to drop out. There's a reason Auction drafts aren't the standard yahoo draft selection. Let's start a separate optional league with different rule changes if you want to do that. Do you know why we call this the "Vet league"? Because we use to have two leagues.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

Let's start the rook league up again and add all the changes there? I'm in. Then we can get all the extras in that want to play and double over others.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

12 man max in both leagues.

[Split T]

I’m pretty sure we only have 12 people total

[Flagrant Fowl]

We don't have anywhere close to enough people for two leagues, and I'm not interested in playing in both.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I've just sent an email to the account everyone uses for the fantasy league. It includes a link to a poll for ranking your scoring and draft preferences. Decisions will be finalized this coming weekend based on the poll results. Let me know if you have any issues.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

Done

[Split T]

Also done

[bajanguy008]

I didn't expect to check in here and see all this debate....
Just came to peep the draft day/time decision but I will look for the email

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm a bit disappointed that only 7 people participated in the poll and it hasn't really done much to resolve the scoring debate. We have a tie in weighted score, but 9-category with turnovers has the most first place votes with 4. Therefore, we're adding turnovers this year.



The draft was a little clearer. 3 people selected the late Sunday slot as their least preferred, so that sealed the Friday time as the best choice.



Thanks to everyone who participated. Due to the manager turnover in the league this year, we will forego the draft slot selection process we've used in previous years. I've randomly set the draft order which you can now view on the league page.

Good luck to everyone.

[Split T]

Thanks FF!