Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

[Indy]

There is no evidence any of those handful of doctors are treating front-line covid patients. Some are not even practicing physicians.

[Superbone]

It's totally ridiculous. I'm not going to spend any time on it. They are quacks. These are not the people dealing with COVID-19. Amazing that people get taken by this stuff.

[In2ition]

You mean to tell me that physicians, that take an oath to do no harm, would be willing to let patients die because they are worried about internet commenters?

Did I say that? Are you saying these Dr's that took the same oath are doing that?

[Indy]

You mean to tell me that physicians, that take an oath to do no harm, would be willing to let patients die because they are worried about internet commenters?

Did I say that? Are you saying these Dr's that took the same oath are doing that?

I am saying two things:

* They do not treat front-line COVID patients, so they would have much less experience and evidence on how to treat it better than the thousands and thousands of actual front-line physicians and virologists and infections disease experts around the globe.

AND

* It is much more like a handful of quacks are violating their Hippocratic oath than the vast majority of physicians on the planet.

[In2ition]

If hydroxychloroquine is such a cure-all, why wasn't it given to Trump when he had the virus?

There wasn't any mention of hydroxycholoroquine in this video, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it. You said you didn't watch it and refuse to, so it's fruitless to argue the merits of it. If you actually did, then we would have something to talk about.

[In2ition]

It's totally ridiculous. I'm not going to spend any time on it. They are quacks. These are not the people dealing with COVID-19. Amazing that people get taken by this stuff.

If you're not going to watch it, why even tell me? You can do what you want, but that isn't actually convincing me of anything to just attack their character. If you said, "No, the covid virus is not 1000 times smaller than the strand of hair." That would be something we could figure out.

[Nodack]

https://www.aafp.org/news/blogs/inthetr ... facts.html
And the "frontline doctors"?

One is Douglas Deibele, who claimed on Twitter in March that he'd successfully treated 500 patients on a combined regimen of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin -- curious, given that Deibele is a dentist who has not practiced medicine in more than two decades.


No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'
— Who are the physicians behind America's Frontline Doctors?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/87797


Take it from a physician treating COVID-19 patients, 'Frontline Doctors' video is dangerous
I'm a real front-line physician in the coronavirus crisis. The viral video 'America's Frontline Doctors' is fake news that sows mistrust in health experts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 550377002/


Who are the doctors in the viral hydroxychloroquine video?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... ine-video/

Dr. Stella Immanuel

Immanuel operates a clinic in a strip mall next to her church, Firepower Ministries. In sermons published on YouTube and articles on the church’s now-defunct website, first unearthed by the Daily Beast, Immanuel makes several outlandish medical claims.

Among them: Medical problems like cysts are caused by sex with "spirit husbands" and "spirit wives," DNA from aliens is being used in medicine and scientists are developing vaccines to prevent people from being religious.

Immanuel also has held sermons and wrote on her now-deleted website that “tormenting spirits are responsible” for “serious gynecological problems” and “impotence.”

“Many women suffer from astral sex regularly. Astral sex is the ability to project one’s spirit man into the victim’s body and have intercourse with it. This practice is very common amongst Satanists. They leave their physical bodies in a dormant state while they project their spirits into the body of whoever they want to have sex with,” Immanuel wrote.

Dr. Dan Erickson

In May, Erickson appeared with Dr. Artin Massihi, co-owner of Accelerated Urgent Care, in another viral video called "Plandemic," which is filled with conspiracy theories about the coronavirus pandemic. In it, they claimed that stay-at-home orders and face masks are not necessary because they weaken your immune system. The doctors made similar assertions in an April press conference and on Fox News.

In a joint statement, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine condemned Erickson and Massihi’s claims, saying that they "strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making."

Gold has also appeared on conservative talk radio and podcast programs, during which she has advocated for the use of hydroxychloroquine in treating COVID-19 patients. She has donated to several Republican causes in the past, including Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine.

Gold told the Associated Press that she started to speak out about the pandemic because there is "no scientific basis that the average American should be concerned" about COVID-19.

Gold described her take on “flattening the curve” while standing in front of Los Angeles’ Cedars-Sinai hospital, discussing case rates and hospital capacity as if appearing to have an affiliation with the institution. Cedars-Sinai publicly addressed the videos saying that “there is no one by that name on the staff of Cedars-Sinai or affiliated with Cedars-Sinai.”


Other doctors introduced in the video included Dr. Bob Hamilton, a private-practice pediatrician from Santa Monica, California, known for his ability to soothe a crying baby via the “Hamilton Hold,” as well as Dr. James Todaro, who includes a “not medical advice” caveat on his Twitter profile, and who has no known experience treating COVID-19.

[Superbone]

It's totally ridiculous. I'm not going to spend any time on it. They are quacks. These are not the people dealing with COVID-19. Amazing that people get taken by this stuff.

If you're not going to watch it, why even tell me? You can do what you want, but that isn't actually convincing me of anything to just attack their character. If you said, "No, the covid virus is not 1000 times smaller than the strand of hair." That would be something we could figure out.

I did watch it and I'm not trying to convince you. If you believe these people over the people who know what they're talking about, I don't know what to tell you. Like I said, I'm not wasting anymore time on it. I'm done.

[In2ition]

https://www.aafp.org/news/blogs/inthetr ... facts.html
And the "frontline doctors"?

One is Douglas Deibele, who claimed on Twitter in March that he'd successfully treated 500 patients on a combined regimen of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin -- curious, given that Deibele is a dentist who has not practiced medicine in more than two decades.


No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'
— Who are the physicians behind America's Frontline Doctors?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/87797


Take it from a physician treating COVID-19 patients, 'Frontline Doctors' video is dangerous
I'm a real front-line physician in the coronavirus crisis. The viral video 'America's Frontline Doctors' is fake news that sows mistrust in health experts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 550377002/


Who are the doctors in the viral hydroxychloroquine video?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... ine-video/

Dr. Stella Immanuel

Immanuel operates a clinic in a strip mall next to her church, Firepower Ministries. In sermons published on YouTube and articles on the church’s now-defunct website, first unearthed by the Daily Beast, Immanuel makes several outlandish medical claims.

Among them: Medical problems like cysts are caused by sex with "spirit husbands" and "spirit wives," DNA from aliens is being used in medicine and scientists are developing vaccines to prevent people from being religious.

Immanuel also has held sermons and wrote on her now-deleted website that “tormenting spirits are responsible” for “serious gynecological problems” and “impotence.”

“Many women suffer from astral sex regularly. Astral sex is the ability to project one’s spirit man into the victim’s body and have intercourse with it. This practice is very common amongst Satanists. They leave their physical bodies in a dormant state while they project their spirits into the body of whoever they want to have sex with,” Immanuel wrote.

Dr. Dan Erickson

In May, Erickson appeared with Dr. Artin Massihi, co-owner of Accelerated Urgent Care, in another viral video called "Plandemic," which is filled with conspiracy theories about the coronavirus pandemic. In it, they claimed that stay-at-home orders and face masks are not necessary because they weaken your immune system. The doctors made similar assertions in an April press conference and on Fox News.

In a joint statement, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine condemned Erickson and Massihi’s claims, saying that they "strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making."

Gold has also appeared on conservative talk radio and podcast programs, during which she has advocated for the use of hydroxychloroquine in treating COVID-19 patients. She has donated to several Republican causes in the past, including Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine.

Gold told the Associated Press that she started to speak out about the pandemic because there is "no scientific basis that the average American should be concerned" about COVID-19.

Gold described her take on “flattening the curve” while standing in front of Los Angeles’ Cedars-Sinai hospital, discussing case rates and hospital capacity as if appearing to have an affiliation with the institution. Cedars-Sinai publicly addressed the videos saying that “there is no one by that name on the staff of Cedars-Sinai or affiliated with Cedars-Sinai.”


Other doctors introduced in the video included Dr. Bob Hamilton, a private-practice pediatrician from Santa Monica, California, known for his ability to soothe a crying baby via the “Hamilton Hold,” as well as Dr. James Todaro, who includes a “not medical advice” caveat on his Twitter profile, and who has no known experience treating COVID-19.

Thank you for your attacks on many of the doctors that had nothing to do with the latest video. Your service and research is welcomed in the debate of the substance of the video. Looks like another person that didn't actually watch it. Way to pile on some easy targets, Nodack. I guess unless I post some doom and gloom stories, you all will try to attack. It's a little ridiculous to just shut down debate. Maybe Marty or the Mods should just censor anything that doesn't agree with all of you. It's really hard to actually have a discussion on things, but maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

[In2ition]

It's totally ridiculous. I'm not going to spend any time on it. They are quacks. These are not the people dealing with COVID-19. Amazing that people get taken by this stuff.

If you're not going to watch it, why even tell me? You can do what you want, but that isn't actually convincing me of anything to just attack their character. If you said, "No, the covid virus is not 1000 times smaller than the strand of hair." That would be something we could figure out.

I did watch it and I'm not trying to convince you. If you believe these people over the people who know what they're talking about, I don't know what to tell you. Like I said, I'm not wasting anymore time on it. I'm done.

I'm not trying to convince you either. You can have your opinion, and it's not going to hurt my feelings. I was just wondering about the substance of the video and the claims inside. Watch it, don't watch it, I don't give a care. I just find it sad that the first reaction is to attack these people and discredit what they say before it even is heard.

Is it true that the virus is a 1000 times smaller than a strand of hair, and therefore masks can't prevent you from getting it?

Is it true that there have been unintended consequences to the lockdowns, like huge upticks in domestic violence, murders through domestic disputes, child abuse, depression and suicide?

Is it true that sub Saharan Africa is not affected nearly as much by covid, as they aren't having lockdowns or mask requirements? I honestly haven't heard anything about this.

[Nodack]

I have yet to see anyone be censored here. I did watch most of the video. I don’t know all the doctors and can’t tell the difference between them on the two different videos. I haven’t studied them that much and don’t plan to.

My take on the whole Trump campaign. We are never supposed to believe anything experts or the media say and instead should only believe fringe youtube right wing conspiracy theories or completely made up fiction that randomly comes to Trumps brain. They can dress up 10,000 Trump supporters in white coats and it won’t make their BS any truer. There may come a time when Trump or one of his supporters says something true but, people I know have already written off anything Trump says as pure BS. His credibility is long gone.

[Split T]

As for the virus being small, yes it’s incredibly small, but the virus doesn’t just float around on its own. It’s attached to respiratory droplets that are much bigger.

Now droplets come in multiple sizes, a lot are too big to float and will drop to the ground within 6 feet, hence the 6 feet of social distancing that’s often mentioned.

Some droplets are small and light enough that they can be carried around by currents in the air and stay airborne for a longer period of time.

Now I’m not certain of this, but my understanding of what differentiates an airborne illness from a droplet illness is whether or not there is enough virus in these smaller airborne droplets to cause an infection. You have very Infectious airborne Illnesses, such as Measles and you have less infectious droplet illnesses like influenza. Covid 19 seems to be somewhere between them.

I have seen some evidence that there is airborne transmission of Covid-19, to me that just greater expresses the need for masks. Sure, a cloth mask or even a surgical mask isn’t going to keep out airborne droplets as well as an N-95 mask, but if you’re just walking through a grocery store it might keep enough out to prevent infection. Better yet, if you’re the one actually infected, it might prevent you from sending a large number of airborne droplets filled with the Covid 19 virus into the air.

[In2ition]

As for the virus being small, yes it’s incredibly small, but the virus doesn’t just float around on its own. It’s attached to respiratory droplets that are much bigger.

Now droplets come in multiple sizes, a lot are too big to float and will drop to the ground within 6 feet, hence the 6 feet of social distancing that’s often mentioned.

Some droplets are small and light enough that they can be carried around by currents in the air and stay airborne for a longer period of time.

Now I’m not certain of this, but my understanding of what differentiates an airborne illness from a droplet illness is whether or not there is enough virus in these smaller airborne droplets to cause an infection. You have very Infectious airborne Illnesses, such as Measles and you have less infectious droplet illnesses like influenza. Covid 19 seems to be somewhere between them.

I have seen some evidence that there is airborne transmission of Covid-19, to me that just greater expresses the need for masks. Sure, a cloth mask or even a surgical mask isn’t going to keep out airborne droplets as well as an N-95 mask, but if you’re just walking through a grocery store it might keep enough out to prevent infection. Better yet, if you’re the one actually infected, it might prevent you from sending a large number of airborne droplets filled with the Covid 19 virus into the air.

Thank you, Split! That wasn't hard.

[In2ition]

I have yet to see anyone be censored here. I did watch most of the video. I don’t know all the doctors and can’t tell the difference between them on the two different videos. I haven’t studied them that much and don’t plan to.

My take on the whole Trump campaign. We are never supposed to believe anything experts or the media say and instead should only believe fringe youtube right wing conspiracy theories or completely made up fiction that randomly comes to Trumps brain. They can dress up 10,000 Trump supporters in white coats and it won’t make their BS any truer. There may come a time when Trump or one of his supporters says something true but, people I know have already written off anything Trump says as pure BS. His credibility is long gone.

I wasn't making this political. If I was I would take this to the Political forum, but I don't post in there anymore. I'm not sure why you felt the need to go there.

As far as the doctors, so you have no interest in talking about the content of the video, only want to make this about each of the doctors?

[Nodack]

I thought the doctors were the same doctors as the first group. Is it a different group using the same name? The group is 100% political IMO. They are all Trump supporters as far as I can tell and from everything I read. It’s political to them.

Nobody likes the masks. Nobody likes being closed down. I just started working again after 6+ months off from this. Did I enjoy not working for six months? Now that things are opening up people are being stupid and blowing off masks. Infections are going up again and because people listen to Trump and these doctors they are refusing to wear masks and call it a hoax. Tell that to the 200,000+ dead Americans. We have half the country doing the opposite as the other half. Trump on 60 minutes says he supports masks. Go to his rally and hear him speak. He says the opposite. They asked him about chanting lock her up, lock him up and lock them all up chanted at every single Trump rally and he said he never said it once and acted like he had no idea what she was talking about.

I listened to the video. They don’t like the masks. They don’t like being closed down. One of their arguments is that it scares the children. When the Germans were bombing London in WWII the children were scared too. They didn’t fight it by telling their children to run outside during the bombing to be not scared. The reality was they needed to be scared to stay alive. We all need to be scared and we all need to act as one and our President and his supporters always do the OPPOSITE of what the experts say making this a lot worse that it had to be.

The description on the video at the bottom.

Doctors stand up to give us the truth.
We are being lied to by The World Health Organization.
We are being lied to by our governments.
We are being lied to by the media.

Sounds like Trump to me.

[Superbone]

If you're going to bring this crap in here, In2, then you need to stop acting like a martyr. Quit making assumptions about who listened and who didn't and telling them that their responses aren't valid. I did listen to it but I'm sorry I did. It's bunch of obvious propaganda. Bring some real data to the table. This absolutely should be in the political section. Just because you don't want to venture there, don't spew this propaganda here. Let's you and I stick to sports, please.

[In2ition]

If you're going to bring this crap in here, In2, then you need to stop acting like a martyr. Quit making assumptions about who listened and who didn't and telling them that their responses aren't valid. I did listen to it but I'm sorry I did. It's bunch of obvious propaganda. Bring some real data to the table. This absolutely should be in the political section. Just because you don't want to venture there, don't spew this propaganda here. Let's you and I stick to sports, please.

I wasn't making assumptions. Some of you flat came out and said it. You can think it's propaganda all you want, but I'm not telling you how to vote and I'm not making it political.

Is this political too?
https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/p ... 29.article

[In2ition]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The ... a-failures

[Nodack]

The first link tried to open a page for a second and then the page turned all white.

The second link is a link to a Conservative paper in the UK stating the carbon copy of what conservatives say in the US. All the numbers are fake. I heard this story before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator
The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs.[1] It was first published in July 1828,[2] thus making it the oldest weekly magazine in the world.[3]

It is owned by David and Frederick Barclay, who also own The Daily Telegraph newspaper, via Press Holdings. Its principal subject areas are politics and culture. Its editorial outlook is generally supportive of the Conservative Party.

[Indy]

It is all a giant conspiracy that convinced doctors around the globe to let people die, force people to wear masks and stay away from each other, for the purpose of... I am not sure. Who does this help?