Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Discuss anything you want.
For discussions about politics, please use the Politics area instead.
User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Fri May 15, 2020 3:39 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:51 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:37 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:57 am
I think the factor that seems to matter more in those countries they cited is population density. I mean, comparing Italy to Sweden is just crazy.
You mean it's not fair to compare Massachusetts to Wyoming?
In a correlation study of how the virus spreads or who it kills, no way. Maybe certain counties or even cities/towns in each state would be similar, but not the state as a whole.

Did I miss something? Is someone comparing those two states and writing a study saying what works in Wyoming should work in Boston?
No, no. Sorry Indy, my humor doesn't translate without the correct font. No one has compared Wyoming and Mass. It was me thinking off the top of my head the most dense state with the least dense.
lol. Seriously though, that’s the argument the president and governors use to open up their states....but as long as you have open borders and allow domestic travel, I don’t see how you could make that leap.

I took care of a young male in late March who flew to NY and back, caught COVID there and was symptomatic on his flight home to AZ. He went to NY “to party.” He exposed every person on that flight, and everyone in our lobby.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Fri May 15, 2020 3:50 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:39 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:51 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:37 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:57 am
I think the factor that seems to matter more in those countries they cited is population density. I mean, comparing Italy to Sweden is just crazy.
You mean it's not fair to compare Massachusetts to Wyoming?
In a correlation study of how the virus spreads or who it kills, no way. Maybe certain counties or even cities/towns in each state would be similar, but not the state as a whole.

Did I miss something? Is someone comparing those two states and writing a study saying what works in Wyoming should work in Boston?
No, no. Sorry Indy, my humor doesn't translate without the correct font. No one has compared Wyoming and Mass. It was me thinking off the top of my head the most dense state with the least dense.
lol. Seriously though, that’s the argument the president and governors use to open up their states....but as long as you have open borders and allow domestic travel, I don’t see how you could make that leap.

I took care of a young male in late March who flew to NY and back, caught COVID there and was symptomatic on his flight home to AZ. He went to NY “to party.” He exposed every person on that flight, and everyone in our lobby.
Were they able to test everyone on the plane and in the lobby? I'm curious how many were infected or what percentage?
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:50 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:39 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:51 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:37 pm


You mean it's not fair to compare Massachusetts to Wyoming?
In a correlation study of how the virus spreads or who it kills, no way. Maybe certain counties or even cities/towns in each state would be similar, but not the state as a whole.

Did I miss something? Is someone comparing those two states and writing a study saying what works in Wyoming should work in Boston?
No, no. Sorry Indy, my humor doesn't translate without the correct font. No one has compared Wyoming and Mass. It was me thinking off the top of my head the most dense state with the least dense.
lol. Seriously though, that’s the argument the president and governors use to open up their states....but as long as you have open borders and allow domestic travel, I don’t see how you could make that leap.

I took care of a young male in late March who flew to NY and back, caught COVID there and was symptomatic on his flight home to AZ. He went to NY “to party.” He exposed every person on that flight, and everyone in our lobby.
Were they able to test everyone on the plane and in the lobby? I'm curious how many were infected or what percentage?
No clue. He went to an urgent care when he developed symptoms, tested positive, then didn’t feel any better shockingly 3 days later so he came to the ER. I did not see him at initial diagnosis so not sure of how state dept handled it

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Sat May 16, 2020 10:48 am

specialsauce wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:10 pm
Right. And I am not saying it doesn't make sense. D3 plays a role in the immune system, so it probably helps.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't do anything. Maybe it harms. The leap that they made is wild and completely unscientific (is that a word?). I could see Trump making that leap, but not anybody with an actual medical or research background.

with COVID, when you go into cytokine storm it's actually the immune system that is overactive and leads to permanent pulmonary insult. So I could also see anything that is touted as "boosting your immune system" as leading to harm.

A promising study out there with tocilizumab, which actually functions to suppress.
I saw this, but have no idea how valid it is.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/new-stu ... _test=1_14
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Sat May 16, 2020 2:14 pm

Correlation does not equal causation. Just really poor science on their part. They should know better, but people like headlines and there’s no such thing as bad publicity apparently.

It’s like if they found that people in Italy tend to wear more silk than than the rest of the world, then jump to conclusion that silk leads to death by COVID. You have to directly test that, not just fish for random characteristics.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Sun May 17, 2020 9:11 pm

"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Sun May 17, 2020 9:12 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:14 pm
Correlation does not equal causation. Just really poor science on their part. They should know better, but people like headlines and there’s no such thing as bad publicity apparently.

It’s like if they found that people in Italy tend to wear more silk than than the rest of the world, then jump to conclusion that silk leads to death by COVID. You have to directly test that, not just fish for random characteristics.
Here's another correlation not causation, but might be something to it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 121353.htm
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10046
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 am

specialsauce wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:50 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:39 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:51 pm


In a correlation study of how the virus spreads or who it kills, no way. Maybe certain counties or even cities/towns in each state would be similar, but not the state as a whole.

Did I miss something? Is someone comparing those two states and writing a study saying what works in Wyoming should work in Boston?
No, no. Sorry Indy, my humor doesn't translate without the correct font. No one has compared Wyoming and Mass. It was me thinking off the top of my head the most dense state with the least dense.
lol. Seriously though, that’s the argument the president and governors use to open up their states....but as long as you have open borders and allow domestic travel, I don’t see how you could make that leap.

I took care of a young male in late March who flew to NY and back, caught COVID there and was symptomatic on his flight home to AZ. He went to NY “to party.” He exposed every person on that flight, and everyone in our lobby.
Were they able to test everyone on the plane and in the lobby? I'm curious how many were infected or what percentage?
No clue. He went to an urgent care when he developed symptoms, tested positive, then didn’t feel any better shockingly 3 days later so he came to the ER. I did not see him at initial diagnosis so not sure of how state dept handled it
There is no way they tested those folks on the plane, or at the party. AZ doesn't have people tracing all positive cases and actively doing something about it.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10046
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Mon May 18, 2020 5:57 am

In2ition wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:12 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:14 pm
Correlation does not equal causation. Just really poor science on their part. They should know better, but people like headlines and there’s no such thing as bad publicity apparently.

It’s like if they found that people in Italy tend to wear more silk than than the rest of the world, then jump to conclusion that silk leads to death by COVID. You have to directly test that, not just fish for random characteristics.
Here's another correlation not causation, but might be something to it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 121353.htm
it would be great if it is that simple. Keep in mind these studies are 'estimating' vitamin D levels based on other factors, not based on actual vitamin d levels.
Although data on Vit D level is not currently available for COVID-19 patients, we leveraged the previously established links between Vit D and C-Reactive Protein (CRP) and between CRP and severe COVID-19, respectively, to estimate the potential impact of Vit D on the reduction of severe COVID-19. Findings A link between Vit D status and COVID-19 A-CMR in the US, France, and the UK (countries with similar screening status) may exist. Combining COVID-19 patient data and prior work on Vit D and CRP levels, we show that the risk of severe COVID-19 cases among patients with severe Vit D deficiency is 17.3% while the equivalent figure for patients with normal Vit D levels is 14.6% (a reduction of 15.6%). Interpretation Given that CRP is a surrogate marker for severe COVID-19 and is associated with Vit D deficiency, our finding suggests that Vit D may reduce COVID-19 severity by suppressing cytokine storm in COVID-19 patients. Further research is needed to account for other factors through direct measurement of Vit D levels.
You would think having millions of people world-wide infected would lead to more accurate data, and not require researches to estimate it.

And Kelly Oubre is such an important factor in our wins this year.
Last edited by Indy on Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Wed May 20, 2020 10:48 am

Unfortunately I agree with Indy

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10046
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am

Glad to see you are coming around on Kelly.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Wed May 20, 2020 12:28 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am
Glad to see you are coming around on Kelly.
Regretted the post as I submitted. Sneaky sneaky. :D

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17062
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Superbone » Wed May 20, 2020 12:50 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:28 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am
Glad to see you are coming around on Kelly.
Regretted the post as I submitted. Sneaky sneaky. :D
That was easy! :D
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 10046
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Wed May 20, 2020 1:09 pm

Superbone wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:50 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:28 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am
Glad to see you are coming around on Kelly.
Regretted the post as I submitted. Sneaky sneaky. :D
That was easy! :D
Most people should be worried if they are outwardly expressing agreement/approval of my opinions. :lol:

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 17062
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Superbone » Wed May 20, 2020 6:54 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:09 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:50 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:28 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:29 am
Glad to see you are coming around on Kelly.
Regretted the post as I submitted. Sneaky sneaky. :D
That was easy! :D
Most people should be worried if they are outwardly expressing agreement/approval of my opinions. :lol:
:D That will teach him!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 3193
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Nodack » Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 pm

Things are opening up in AZ. My hair was getting long so my wife made an appointment with our stylist who just opened up again in a new place. She sent a lost of precautions and said all clients must wear masks at all times. No one is allowed if they feel sick or had the virus. She said she opened up in a place where she has her own private room away from the other stylists. I decided to risk it.

I get there and have to call her to get buzzed in like the banks have been doing. We go to her 10 X 12 room and close the door. She says she hates the masks and doesn’t want to wear one and said I didn’t have to either. I reluctantly took my mask off and she started. A few minutes later another stylist and her client come in wearing masks and her client sits in the stylist chair next to me and they both take off their masks too. So much for just us. After a little chit chatting they move to the hair washing station on the other side of me and proceed to wash her clients hair. After a few minutes of then chatting her client announces that she had Covid -19 but, was feeling much better the past dour days. He stylist stops and says “What?” “You have Covid and you are here?” She immediately made her client leave and was pissed off. Now I have been within a few feet of someone with Covid for about ten minutes in an enclosed room. Perfect.

I finished there, wiped down with disinfectant in the car, came home and got in the pool thinking I would chlorinate my entire body. Then I gargled with Listerine and took a multivitamin. All those things were probably useless against getting it but, I did them anyway. Thanks lady!

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Wed May 20, 2020 9:58 pm

Nodack wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 pm
Things are opening up in AZ. My hair was getting long so my wife made an appointment with our stylist who just opened up again in a new place. She sent a lost of precautions and said all clients must wear masks at all times. No one is allowed if they feel sick or had the virus. She said she opened up in a place where she has her own private room away from the other stylists. I decided to risk it.

I get there and have to call her to get buzzed in like the banks have been doing. We go to her 10 X 12 room and close the door. She says she hates the masks and doesn’t want to wear one and said I didn’t have to either. I reluctantly took my mask off and she started. A few minutes later another stylist and her client come in wearing masks and her client sits in the stylist chair next to me and they both take off their masks too. So much for just us. After a little chit chatting they move to the hair washing station on the other side of me and proceed to wash her clients hair. After a few minutes of then chatting her client announces that she had Covid -19 but, was feeling much better the past dour days. He stylist stops and says “What?” “You have Covid and you are here?” She immediately made her client leave and was pissed off. Now I have been within a few feet of someone with Covid for about ten minutes in an enclosed room. Perfect.

I finished there, wiped down with disinfectant in the car, came home and got in the pool thinking I would chlorinate my entire body. Then I gargled with Listerine and took a multivitamin. All those things were probably useless against getting it but, I did them anyway. Thanks lady!
Holy sh!t, I would be livid. She knowingly goes there even as they ask you prior? Did they not ask her before or did she lie about it? What a POS. She may not think it's a bug deal, but come on.

Are you going to get tested? Idk how long it takes until you confirmed.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 3193
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Nodack » Wed May 20, 2020 10:07 pm

They sent out emails telling us if we are sick not to come and if you had or have Covid to certainly not come. They said masked must be worn at all times. That rule got ignored fast. They had signs all over the front door saying the same thing and you had to be buzzed in to gain entrance. She had to be a complete dumbazz to not know.

I was thinking of calling my doc tomorrow and see what they say. From what I have read, it takes 3-15 days for symptoms. I am not sure if you can test right away. A friend told me to use an oxygen meter like they put on your fingers.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04 ... gen-levels#
Among the many surprises of the new coronavirus is one that seems to defy basic biology: infected patients with extraordinarily low blood-oxygen levels, or hypoxia, scrolling on their phones, chatting with doctors, and generally describing themselves as comfortable. Clinicians call them happy hypoxics.

“The brain is tuned to monitoring the carbon dioxide with various sensors,” Davenport explains. “We don’t sense our oxygen levels.”

Strayer finds it reasonable to imagine that hypoxia emerges because “small blood vessels of the lung are being showered with clots.” His own hospital and others are beginning to test many admitted COVID-19 patients for markers of excess clotting and treat those who show it with blood thinners. But, “It is simply not known” whether clotting causes happy hypoxia, Strayer says. There are other possibilities. Recent imaging of a hypoxic patient showed “almost waxy-looking film all around the lungs,” Caputo says. “I don’t know what is actually going on pathophysiologically down there.”

Caputo says this hypoxia is likely stressing a body already straining to battle the virus. What to do about it is prompting debate. An emerging view is that doctors should avoid aggressive treatment they’ve been trained to offer in other settings. Luciano Gattinoni, a guest professor in intensive care at the University of Göttingen Medical Center, is wary of what he calls a “Pavlovian response” to COVID-19 hypoxia, in which doctors may swoop in to inflate lungs with ventilators or high-pressure oxygen even when patients seem comfortable. Those measures, Gattinoni wrote 24 April online in JAMA, could harm lungs that are inflating on their own but may be needed if patients aren’t helped by noninvasive treatment.

Doctors are uncertain about the value of detecting low oxygen saturation early using inexpensive devices called pulse oximeters at home. Is home monitoring “going to prevent all bad outcomes in COVID? Absolutely not,” says Levitan, who wrote a 20 April op-ed in The New York Times arguing that early hypoxia can rapidly progress to pneumonia and death. “If we were able to detect them when they were less sick, they’d do better.” Negri tells her patients to monitor their oxygen saturation and visit the hospital if it drops to 93% or below. At that point, she considers blood thinners and other therapy.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6169
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Wed May 20, 2020 10:51 pm

Most smart phones have an oxygen sensor. At least my last 2 Samsung's did. I don't know how well they work, but worth a shot.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 3193
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Nodack » Thu May 21, 2020 1:40 am

We have an oxygen sensor that goes on your finger already. I’m at 96% and 98.6 temp. So far so good.

Post Reply