Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

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Cap
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Cap » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:54 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:40 am
Don’t worry, Covid can’t survive in the heat and around April it will disappear...
Someday an April will come when climate change has made this area inhospitable to human life, and it won’t be very hospitable to SARS-CoV-2 either, because it kinda needs a host.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:17 pm

I had a Shower Thought moment this morning. A coffee thought, really. But who's counting?

This whole dispute over the dangers and safety measures involving COVID really gives a new layer of insult to the term mouth breather.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:44 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:40 am
Don’t worry, Covid can’t survive in the heat and around April it will disappear...
That 15 will soon be zero.

That was nearly 120,000 dead Americans ago. And over 2,000,000 infections ago.

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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Superbone » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:20 am

I appreciate you being so conscientious Indy and wearing a mask in phxsuns.net.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am

Covering your online avatar with a mask is the best way to avoid getting a computer virus.

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Cap
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Cap » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:40 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am
Covering your online avatar with a mask is the best way to avoid getting a computer virus.
Actually it doesn’t help with that. It only helps keep you from spreading it.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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ShelC
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by ShelC » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:03 am

Comedian DL Hughley passed out a few days ago on stage during his comedy set. Turns out he had corona but no symptons and just ended up passing out which is crazy. But here's a comedian traveling around to smaller clubs/venues, in close contact with others, no masks being worn. This thing isn't going away here anytime soon.



https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dl- ... 27217.html

"“[Testing positive] blew me away,” he admitted. “I was what they call ‘asymptomatic’ ... Flu-like symptoms, I didn’t have. Shortness of breath, I didn’t have. Difficulty breathing, I didn’t have. A cough, I didn’t have. A low-grade fever, I didn’t have. I still don’t have a fever. I didn’t have a loss of smell or taste. Apparently, I just lost consciousness."

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Indy » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:23 pm

Cap wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:40 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am
Covering your online avatar with a mask is the best way to avoid getting a computer virus.
Actually it doesn’t help with that. It only helps keep you from spreading it.
I am just doing my part to protect you all

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:46 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:23 pm
Cap wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:40 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am
Covering your online avatar with a mask is the best way to avoid getting a computer virus.
Actually it doesn’t help with that. It only helps keep you from spreading it.
I am just doing my part to protect you all
Lolllll

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Cap
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Cap » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:03 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:23 pm
Cap wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:40 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am
Covering your online avatar with a mask is the best way to avoid getting a computer virus.
Actually it doesn’t help with that. It only helps keep you from spreading it.
I am just doing my part to protect you all
On the one hand, that’s very considerate, so thank you very much.

On the other hand, being considerate of others is anti-freedom, so fuck you very much.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Superbone » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:17 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:03 am
Comedian DL Hughley passed out a few days ago on stage during his comedy set. Turns out he had corona but no symptons and just ended up passing out which is crazy. But here's a comedian traveling around to smaller clubs/venues, in close contact with others, no masks being worn. This thing isn't going away here anytime soon.

"“[Testing positive] blew me away,” he admitted. “I was what they call ‘asymptomatic’ ... Flu-like symptoms, I didn’t have. Shortness of breath, I didn’t have. Difficulty breathing, I didn’t have. A cough, I didn’t have. A low-grade fever, I didn’t have. I still don’t have a fever. I didn’t have a loss of smell or taste. Apparently, I just lost consciousness."
Publicity stunt.








...Kidding.
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by JeremyG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:15 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:30 am
Told myself i wouldn’t respond and be baited if you posted garbage again, but I think the podcast you posted is actually credible and raises a lot of valid questions. I’ll get to that.

Your post regarding the surgeon general as well as my quotes are taken from quite a while back. You’re not stupid, you’re just intentionally and incredibly good at finding ways to try and make a point regardless of validity.

This is a completely new disease, and since January we have been simultaneously having to learn about it, diagnose, treat, and educate the masses.

Obviously much has changed over the course of the last 6 months.

The surgeon generals message was in February- he had one agenda in mind: preservation of PPE. Healthcare workers could not get their hands on PPE at that time. In addition, the disease wasn’t widespread, certainly not as prevalent, and mask wearing was erratic. These were all reasons behind his message. He changed his tune once the disease spread.

My message re N95s stands. I still think they offer the best protection. I wear a p100 reusable face mask through the entirety of my shifts. Not all my colleagues do, but it’s a decision I’ve made for myself.

This ties the podcast in. The truth is that we don’t have high quality evidence showing the effectiveness OR the ineffectiveness of surgical masks and especially cloth masks in transmission.

We are learning a whole lot about this illness. We do know historically that surgical masks are effective in droplet control. We also know (and your podcast mentions) that chance of infection transmission is a product of viral load exposure x time. So what does that mean?

If you’re standing next to someone and are speaking for an hour, that’s a low viral load for a long time. You will be at risk.

If you’re standing next to someone and they let out a big sneeze, that’s a large viral load coming your way. You’re most likely going to get infected.

This is where the concept of these masks come in. The concept is that if both parties are wearing masks, then the mask will at least grab the droplets and not allow for leakage, while allowing some aerosolized particles through, and that the same goes for the healthy individual.

If you reduce the viral load exposure, you make it less likely for the transmission AND if you do get it, lower severity of illness.

Now I will tell you I still wear an N95 because I am wary of aerosolized particles at work. But walking in the grocery store, not being exposed to an individual for a prolonged period of time, with everyone wearing masks is a different story. The CDC, WHO, and just about every organization has come to believe that this illness is MOSTLY spread through large droplets. Yes it can aerosolize but that is a secondary mode of transmission.

I can tell you our standard in the hospitals statewide is still to wear surgical masks unless performing aerosolizing procedures. We have had voluntary employee testing and have found only 1% and change of our employees have been infected, which obviously shows we’re doing something right. The staff I know personally that got infected was in the early times of the pandemic where they weren’t wearing masks unless patients had respiratory complaints.

An interesting observational report is at Great Clips where 2 stylists tested positive and potentially exposed 140 people. This is by no means a controlled study but they did require all stylists and customers to wear masks. None of the 140 clients they exposed tested positive as of yet https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansas ... 90216.html

The bottom line is to protect yourself. You are correct, this virus isn’t going away any time soon. You’re completely incorrect in concluding that we might as well just live with it.

Protect yourself. You can’t wear a mask and just have a big house party. I don’t think you can wear a mask and go to a concert with tons of people standing around for hours in a closed environment. Wear a mask so that ithe occasion you do go shopping, or walk by others at the mall, or Home Depot, your viral load exposure is significantly reduced, and your time exposure is already low, so you will likely be fine.

I would make a great attempt to purchase surgical masks over cloth masks- yes.

So yes I think the podcast you shared was the first intelligent piece of material you have presented and contributed to this group. Do not come in here with the CO2, bacteria spontaneously growing in the mask bullshit. Healthcare workers are wearing masks for 12+ hours per day and we’re fine. You can wear a mask for the 30 minutes you’re at a store.
Funny how you keep ignoring my two main issues with telling people to wear masks:

1. As Dr. Osterholm points out in the podcast, it gives people a false sense of security, and they are much more likely to have closer contact for a longer period of time with other people than if they were not wearing one.

2. Most people frequently touch their contaminated masks/faces (adjusting it, taking breaks from it, putting it down and back up, etc.), which spreads the virus to others via cross-contamination/fomite transmission (as well as potentially infecting themselves). It is completely filthy, unsanitary, and infectious.

If the concern is large viral loads, tell people to cover their coughs and sneezes, instead of telling them to wear masks.

The WHO lists even more harmful effects of mask-wearing:
The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:
• potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
• potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify;
• potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
• potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;(50)
• difficulty with communicating clearly;
• potential discomfort;(41, 51)
• a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;
• poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;
• waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
• difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
• disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstrea ... 0/retrieve
The fact that I quoted tweets/posts from earlier in the pandemic is irrelevant since, as Dr. Osterholm points out, the science is no different today than it was then with regard to the effectiveness of masks, and Dr. Osterholm says that aerosolization of the virus is basically a given at this point. So it was okay for the surgeon general to lie to the public about the effectiveness of masks just because he didn't want them buying up the supply? Dr. Fauci even admitted recently that they lied when telling the public they shouldn't wear masks, because the supply was limited! So why should we believe anything Dr. Fauci says?

The WHO stated, this month, June 2020:
At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstrea ... 0/retrieve
"NO direct evidence." (Exactly what Dr. Osterholm says, it's all modeling studies and claiming that correlation=causation nonsense.)

That's not me saying it. That's the WHO saying it. "NO direct evidence." None. Zero. Zilch.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:21 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:15 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:30 am
Told myself i wouldn’t respond and be baited if you posted garbage again, but I think the podcast you posted is actually credible and raises a lot of valid questions. I’ll get to that.

Your post regarding the surgeon general as well as my quotes are taken from quite a while back. You’re not stupid, you’re just intentionally and incredibly good at finding ways to try and make a point regardless of validity.

This is a completely new disease, and since January we have been simultaneously having to learn about it, diagnose, treat, and educate the masses.

Obviously much has changed over the course of the last 6 months.

The surgeon generals message was in February- he had one agenda in mind: preservation of PPE. Healthcare workers could not get their hands on PPE at that time. In addition, the disease wasn’t widespread, certainly not as prevalent, and mask wearing was erratic. These were all reasons behind his message. He changed his tune once the disease spread.

My message re N95s stands. I still think they offer the best protection. I wear a p100 reusable face mask through the entirety of my shifts. Not all my colleagues do, but it’s a decision I’ve made for myself.

This ties the podcast in. The truth is that we don’t have high quality evidence showing the effectiveness OR the ineffectiveness of surgical masks and especially cloth masks in transmission.

We are learning a whole lot about this illness. We do know historically that surgical masks are effective in droplet control. We also know (and your podcast mentions) that chance of infection transmission is a product of viral load exposure x time. So what does that mean?

If you’re standing next to someone and are speaking for an hour, that’s a low viral load for a long time. You will be at risk.

If you’re standing next to someone and they let out a big sneeze, that’s a large viral load coming your way. You’re most likely going to get infected.

This is where the concept of these masks come in. The concept is that if both parties are wearing masks, then the mask will at least grab the droplets and not allow for leakage, while allowing some aerosolized particles through, and that the same goes for the healthy individual.

If you reduce the viral load exposure, you make it less likely for the transmission AND if you do get it, lower severity of illness.

Now I will tell you I still wear an N95 because I am wary of aerosolized particles at work. But walking in the grocery store, not being exposed to an individual for a prolonged period of time, with everyone wearing masks is a different story. The CDC, WHO, and just about every organization has come to believe that this illness is MOSTLY spread through large droplets. Yes it can aerosolize but that is a secondary mode of transmission.

I can tell you our standard in the hospitals statewide is still to wear surgical masks unless performing aerosolizing procedures. We have had voluntary employee testing and have found only 1% and change of our employees have been infected, which obviously shows we’re doing something right. The staff I know personally that got infected was in the early times of the pandemic where they weren’t wearing masks unless patients had respiratory complaints.

An interesting observational report is at Great Clips where 2 stylists tested positive and potentially exposed 140 people. This is by no means a controlled study but they did require all stylists and customers to wear masks. None of the 140 clients they exposed tested positive as of yet https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansas ... 90216.html

The bottom line is to protect yourself. You are correct, this virus isn’t going away any time soon. You’re completely incorrect in concluding that we might as well just live with it.

Protect yourself. You can’t wear a mask and just have a big house party. I don’t think you can wear a mask and go to a concert with tons of people standing around for hours in a closed environment. Wear a mask so that ithe occasion you do go shopping, or walk by others at the mall, or Home Depot, your viral load exposure is significantly reduced, and your time exposure is already low, so you will likely be fine.

I would make a great attempt to purchase surgical masks over cloth masks- yes.

So yes I think the podcast you shared was the first intelligent piece of material you have presented and contributed to this group. Do not come in here with the CO2, bacteria spontaneously growing in the mask bullshit. Healthcare workers are wearing masks for 12+ hours per day and we’re fine. You can wear a mask for the 30 minutes you’re at a store.
Funny how you keep ignoring my two main issues with telling people to wear masks:

1. As Dr. Osterholm points out in the podcast, it gives people a false sense of security, and they are much more likely to have closer contact for a longer period of time with other people than if they were not wearing one.

2. Most people frequently touch their contaminated masks/faces (adjusting it, taking breaks from it, putting it down and back up, etc.), which spreads the virus to others via cross-contamination/fomite transmission (as well as potentially infecting themselves). It is completely filthy, unsanitary, and infectious.

If the concern is large viral loads, tell people to cover their coughs and sneezes, instead of telling them to wear masks.

The WHO lists even more harmful effects of mask-wearing:
The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:
• potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
• potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify;
• potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
• potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;(50)
• difficulty with communicating clearly;
• potential discomfort;(41, 51)
• a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;
• poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;
• waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
• difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
• disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstrea ... 0/retrieve
The fact that I quoted tweets/posts from earlier in the pandemic is irrelevant since, as Dr. Osterholm points out, the science is no different today than it was then with regard to the effectiveness of masks, and Dr. Osterholm says that aerosolization of the virus is basically a given at this point. So it was okay for the surgeon general to lie to the public about the effectiveness of masks just because he didn't want them buying up the supply? Dr. Fauci even admitted recently that they lied when telling the public they shouldn't wear masks, because the supply was limited! So why should we believe anything Dr. Fauci says?

The WHO stated, this month, June 2020:
At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstrea ... 0/retrieve
"NO direct evidence." (Exactly what Dr. Osterholm says, it's all modeling studies and claiming that correlation=causation nonsense.)

That's not me saying it. That's the WHO saying it. "NO direct evidence." None. Zero. Zilch.
Lots of BS. Back to nonsense.. Not even worth having a discussion over at this point. Bottom line is , it’s mandated in Maricopa County now which is the right thing to do, intellects will understand, and the rest just have to deal with it. Don’t really care if they don’t like it. Manipulate, twist, do whatever you want to fit a square peg into a round hole. But you still have to wear a mask in public now.

A nurse told me their significant other who is a hoax follower was kicked out of a major retail store today for not wearing a mask. They were pissed. I felt a sigh of relief.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:28 am

I went to the Fry's supermarket here in Marana the other day. They had a sign out front saying that masks are required inside. Happy to see it, I went in. I saw a big dude in a green shirt with no mask. I confronted him and asked him where his mask was. He cursed me out and accused me of being "brainwashed" etc. etc. I reported him to the store employees and they had him removed from the store after he refused to put one on. :-)

I will happily repeat this any time I see somebody in a store without a mask. I'm coming for you, ignoramuses.

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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:33 am

I had a knock at the door from an older lady this weekend. Full grey hair, but not like super old. Probably mid 60s.

No mask and she didn't stand back from the door. In fact, she tried to hand me a flier and shake my hand. Her son is running for District Judge.

Apparently he doesn't make evidence based decisions.
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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Nodack » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:49 am

It’s a mad mad world.

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In2ition
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by In2ition » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:49 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:28 am
I went to the Fry's supermarket here in Marana the other day. They had a sign out front saying that masks are required inside. Happy to see it, I went in. I saw a big dude in a green shirt with no mask. I confronted him and asked him where his mask was. He cursed me out and accused me of being "brainwashed" etc. etc. I reported him to the store employees and they had him removed from the store after he refused to put one on. :-)

I will happily repeat this any time I see somebody in a store without a mask. I'm coming for you, ignoramuses.
Good job, Karen!

;)

BTW, I had to shame my wife into wearing a mask at places. She was being a little belligerent, even though no one confronted her.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:54 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:28 am
I went to the Fry's supermarket here in Marana the other day. They had a sign out front saying that masks are required inside. Happy to see it, I went in. I saw a big dude in a green shirt with no mask. I confronted him and asked him where his mask was. He cursed me out and accused me of being "brainwashed" etc. etc. I reported him to the store employees and they had him removed from the store after he refused to put one on. :-)

I will happily repeat this any time I see somebody in a store without a mask. I'm coming for you, ignoramuses.
There’s no point in trying to reason with these people. At this point, doing exactly what you did and reporting them to the store is all that matters. Fall in line or leave. I’ve seen our hospitals get slammed all week. I don’t have time or patience to reason with these maggots any longer.


BTW, saw on an acquaintances Facebook feed that old town clubs are still packed without masks. The 20-44 year old age group is going to kill so many who don’t deserve to die.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by AmareIsGod » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:35 pm

Well, my manager and her husband decided to take their just turned 21 year old daughter to Vegas last weekend. Their other daughter and both daughters boyfriends attended. I was shocked when, Thursday, she was feeling very ill and took the rest of the week off. She sent an email Sunday that she'll be off and on, but mostly off, the next two weeks and that her daughter , husband and daughters boyfriend all tested positive for Covid-19. Mind you, she specifically noted in her email that both of her daughter's boyfriends are essential workers which is why everyone likely got sick and said "it definitely wasn't from Las Vegas".

I saw those Facebook photos last weekend and wanted to slap the piss out of all of them for drinking and partying, celebrating her 21st birthday in Vegas casino's while also gambling. All of that clean equipment, fresh air. No masks.

I tell you, I was shocked by that email Sunday.

I know it doesn't mean anything but, this entire time, in team calls and meetings (we're all remote) she's constantly downplayed the virus, thinks masks are ridiculous and unnecessary, for a few months thought Chloroquine was the magic cure and said this whole thing is nothing more than overblown flu. Her daughter is dating someone that is black yet she denounces BLM and loves Donny T.
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Superbone
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Re: Coronavirus: When should we be concerned?

Post by Superbone » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:50 pm

Whoa. That's all I will say. Imagine how many others they spread it to. OK, THAT is all I'll say.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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