Tesla

Discuss anything you want.
For discussions about politics, please use the Politics area instead.
Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

EDIT--We had a Windstar and a Freestar, but they were company vehicles for my wife and we weren't married yet, so I don't count them.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5277
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by Nodack »

I have never owned a Ford either. Growing up my mother had a Fairlane that was stolen in Mesa and used in a bank robbery. They found it in Tucson. We later had one of those huge Thunderbirds around 1980. I called it a boat.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5277
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by Nodack »

LG will cover nearly the entire cost of GM’s Chevy Bolt EV recall
https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/12/lg-wi ... ev-recall/

After New Battery Fire, GM Recalls Every Chevy Volt Vehicle Ever Made
https://www.4injured.com/blog/after-new ... ever-made/

GM signs a contract with LG to pay for volt battery recall
https://illinoisnewstoday.com/gm-signs- ... 20/393091/

I talked to GM and they made a case number for me.
We are sorry to hear you are experiencing this. What we can do is continue to work with you and your dealership. Loaners are based on the dealership discretion and availability. We encourage you to work with reputable 3rd-party rental agencies (such as Enterprise) to secure a rental vehicle that will meet your needs. We can look into rental reimbursement for you once repairs are completed.

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

Ugh. Sounds like you will rent a car for a month, then they will come back and say they won't pay for it. Or pay like $15/day when it cost you $45/day with taxes.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5277
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by Nodack »

Exactly. I have been using my parents car that is nine years old and had 14k miles on it. Obviously they don’t drive it. That is just lucky. Not everyone would have that option and I shouldn’t have to do that anyway. Was looking at blue book value and might propose they give me blue book value for it and buy me out. Was already done with GM after that “shift to park” fiasco I’m pretty sure I mentioned before.

Two years ago. Park the car, put it in park, push off button, display says “shift to park”, I yell “It is in park!”, car won’t shut off, jiggle shifter, car turns off sometimes, sometimes it stays on, I leave, lock car, it eventually turns itself off after ten minutes or so, repeat every time I drive. I check out gm-volt.com and find out it’s a common problem and it’s covered by the regular warranty and the longer Voltec warranty but, sometimes the dealers give you a hassle and some had to bring GM into it to resolve.

I took it into the dealer and they said it’s not covered. I made a stink about it, payed to have it fixed and told them I would never be back. A week later the “shift to park” thing starts back up. Pissed off, I sent a letter to GM explaining the whole thing and after six months they sent me an email asking me to call them. They said they were sorry and that they would personally have a GM rep at the dealer to help resolve the situation. I said I didn’t want to go back to that dealer. They said since the work was done there we had to. I reluctantly said ok and then click, they transferred me to the dealer and the same tech guy that told me it wasn’t covered and I told I would never be back answered “Van Chevrolet, Elvis speaking. They didn’t talk to anyone there at the dealer before hand they just transferred me to the dealer. I didn’t want to talk to them and especially not this guy. I guess they wanted me to make an appointment with this guy to get my car fixed. I asked him if it was covered and he said no. I said our conversation is over.

I called back GM and spoke with a young woman. Asked her directly Is the “shift to park” issue covered. She said no. I produced a receipt from some guy with a volt like mine with roughly the same miles, both covered under the same Voltec warranty, both brought in for the same problem, both diagnosed with the same problem, both fixed with the same parts. His said covered under Voltec warranty and the price was $.0. Mine wasn’t. She told me that that situation was totally different and that my car isn’t covered. I told her our conversation is over and that the odds of me buying another GM car were 0%. That made me mad. Why do they charge so e people and not others and telling me that the situation was totally different was ridiculous.

Fast forward a year and I get a notice of a recall. I can’t take it to my old dealership because I am boycotting them. I decide to take it to the dealer about two miles from my house that I went to to purchase the car in the first place. They lost my business. I showed them the ad for the Volts at Van Chevrolet. They told me the price quoted was bs and wouldn’t budge on their price to match it. I went to Van. It wasn’t bs. They called back a week later to match the price. I told them too late. Now I was back for service and was skeptical. Made an appointment, pulled into the bay at my designated time and of course the “shift to park” issue was still happening and it wouldn’t shut off. The service guy came over and said they could take a look at that for me while it was here. I said no thanks, it’s not covered and I refuse to pay to fix it again. He said he was pretty sure it was covered under the Voltec warranty. I just laughed and told him that I have been through the wringer with the a dealership and GM on this and they were pretty adamant it wasn’t covered. He said he would check it out and get back to me. He calls back and says “It’s totally covered 100%”. I was like “Are you freaking kidding me?” I was happy to get that F’ing problem fixed and happy that it WAS covered but, still way upset that this unfolded like this.

Now fast forward another year and fairly recent and I get a recall notice from GM. I was about to have open heart surgery and was way busy with gigs and doctors appointments. I didn’t have much time to mess around. I made an appointment with my new best friends to get the recall taken care of. The earliest appointment was a week away and I booked it on my day off. I take it to the dealer on time in the morning and drop it off. Later that day they i formed me that they had no one to work on the car and asked if I could leave it. I said no, I have work and need a vehicle. They said ok. I picked up my car at the end of the day and nobody even looked at it. That kind of chapped my hide. I made an appointment a week out and there was nobody to work on it? They never called to apologize or book another appointment either. I had surgery, survived and recovered, started working again after two months.

I am 50 miles from home late at night and I just left a gig. I get on the freeway, can’t find my phone, pull off at the first exit and park at a Game Stop to look for my phone. I find my phone and then the car won’t start. I try multiple times and just a click. I open the hood. I see nothing obvious. Close the hood. Try starting it a few more times. Nothing. Time to call On Star. They inform me my free towing has expired. I decide to go it alone. Every tow place I see says closed. I try starting it a few more times. Bingo, it starts but, displays a check engine light and the display says reduced power. I decide to go for it and drive it all the way home with it driving a little sickly. I get home, leave it running, load the bike and drive to the dealer. They are closed so I drive home and park it in the garage. I call to make an appointment. A week out is the earliest. I call another dealer. A month out is the earliest. I called back the first dealer and made an appointment.

Now my car has sat in their graveyard for well over a month. Sorry for the long story. It is a pretty interesting story. Needless to say I am a little anti GM at this moment.

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2076
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by pickle »

So sorry to hear of your woes ‘dack. I can maybe explain why you got some of those run arounds but it won’t help you. Unfortunately I think traditional OEMs are getting together to march to the elephant graveyard together. The new brands like Tesla offer a much better experience but then their products are actually not as good in terms of their pure car value, but people are finding out perhaps that the service is worth the difference. Interesting times in the automotive industry for sure.

Online
User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 7924
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by In2ition »

Damn, Nodak, sorry to hear that. That's a nightmare experience.
Let's Go Brandon! .
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
ブランドンに行こう

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

pickle wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:42 am
So sorry to hear of your woes ‘dack. I can maybe explain why you got some of those run arounds but it won’t help you. Unfortunately I think traditional OEMs are getting together to march to the elephant graveyard together. The new brands like Tesla offer a much better experience but then their products are actually not as good in terms of their pure car value, but people are finding out perhaps that the service is worth the difference. Interesting times in the automotive industry for sure.
This is so true. And for the value vs service discussion, I would add they are lower quality and safety, too. But they look cool and are connected/tech savvy.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5277
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by Nodack »

I know that Covid has messed up everything. If not for Covid they probably would have been able to replaced my battery right away. I don’t really blame GM for supply problems. I blame them for the way they do business. One customer has a repair covered and another doesn’t in the exact same situation is inconsistent and makes customers that did pay like me angry. A dealer making you make an appointment a week out and then not having anyone to work on the car is bad. Lying to me about the situation isn’t good either. Leaving me hanging out to dry for a month without a car and having no clue when I will get it fixed is not cool either.

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

They are the ones that decided to outsource that part/item/service to a 3rd party, so I do blame them for supply problems. All of these global companies keep outsources their work to others, and for some reason think that outsources the responsibility, too. But it doesn't. Supplier XYZ is not the one with their name on the car and not the one that makes all the profit when it sells. (end rant on out-sourcing)

Online
User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 7924
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by In2ition »

Nodack wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:51 am
I know that Covid has messed up everything. If not for Covid they probably would have been able to replaced my battery right away. I don’t really blame GM for supply problems. I blame them for the way they do business. One customer has a repair covered and another doesn’t in the exact same situation is inconsistent and makes customers that did pay like me angry. A dealer making you make an appointment a week out and then not having anyone to work on the car is bad. Lying to me about the situation isn’t good either. Leaving me hanging out to dry for a month without a car and having no clue when I will get it fixed is not cool either.
This makes me want to avoid GM out of principle and solidarity. F them.
Let's Go Brandon! .
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
ブランドンに行こう

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 5277
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by Nodack »

Indy wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:14 am
They are the ones that decided to outsource that part/item/service to a 3rd party, so I do blame them for supply problems. All of these global companies keep outsources their work to others, and for some reason think that outsources the responsibility, too. But it doesn't. Supplier XYZ is not the one with their name on the car and not the one that makes all the profit when it sells. (end rant on out-sourcing)
I worked at General Motors testing grounds awhile back and remember talking to an engineer that said all the parts come from a slew of different suppliers around the globe and get shipped to where they build the cars. Btw, GM outsourced just about everything at the proving grounds except the engineers. All the drivers were outsourced to KETT Engineering who also did the driving at Volkswagen and Nissan. The mechanics were all outsourced from some other company. The security another.

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2076
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by pickle »

I get what you guys are saying, but I think it just makes more financial sense to outsource, because the supplier can focus on the one specific product and not get bogged down by bureaucracies that run rampant in big companies. If GM were to build all its own components, then pretty much every part will suffer the same issues that the battery does, maybe even more so.

The thing with battery electric cars is that the technology itself is not particularly stable but it's being pushed out to automotive applications. In certain parts of the world, cars need to pass this puncture test where the battery pack is pierced through by a foreign object and not catch on fire for a certain amount of time, and literally no battery can do this, period. Besides the chips shortage, at some point some of the precious metals used in the batteries will put a ceiling on how many new battery packs can be built per year.

I know that BEVs are much easier maintenance and perceived to be more environmentally friendly, but all my friends that come to me for car advice, I tell them to stick to gasoline/diesel ones if they can... let the technology mature for a while. Unlike Tesla stock, Tesla cars won't grow higher in value with the passing of time...

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2076
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by pickle »

Also with respect to liabilities, there usually is a contract between the OEM and the supplier to ensure that the supplier covers a certain percentage of the warranty costs incurred, but as you said Indy, the loss of reputation/perception from public is hard to measure.

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

pickle wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:47 pm
Also with respect to liabilities, there usually is a contract between the OEM and the supplier to ensure that the supplier covers a certain percentage of the warranty costs incurred, but as you said Indy, the loss of reputation/perception from public is hard to measure.
Yeah I know all about supplier quality agreements. :)

But that is just the big company pawning off the responsibility to someone else, so when a lawsuit comes, they can point to the supplier and try and wash their hands of it.

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

pickle wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:46 pm
I get what you guys are saying, but I think it just makes more financial sense to outsource, because the supplier can focus on the one specific product and not get bogged down by bureaucracies that run rampant in big companies. If GM were to build all its own components, then pretty much every part will suffer the same issues that the battery does, maybe even more so.

The thing with battery electric cars is that the technology itself is not particularly stable but it's being pushed out to automotive applications. In certain parts of the world, cars need to pass this puncture test where the battery pack is pierced through by a foreign object and not catch on fire for a certain amount of time, and literally no battery can do this, period. Besides the chips shortage, at some point some of the precious metals used in the batteries will put a ceiling on how many new battery packs can be built per year.

I know that BEVs are much easier maintenance and perceived to be more environmentally friendly, but all my friends that come to me for car advice, I tell them to stick to gasoline/diesel ones if they can... let the technology mature for a while. Unlike Tesla stock, Tesla cars won't grow higher in value with the passing of time...
I am not against finding experts in certain fields that do something better than anyone else, so you use them to supply things. But like Dack said, many multi-national corporations just start outsources EVERYTHING because they think it lowers their burden and lowers their scope of control (to limit their liability). That is where the problem comes from.

Great line from the under-rated season 2 of The Wire:


User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 3347
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by AmareIsGod »

The entire series of The Wire is underrated. Some of the best TV ever made.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

Online
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Tesla

Post by Indy »

So many people say Season 2 is the worst. I think it is on par with Season1. I would go 3, 2/1, 4, 5. And 5 is a distant finisher, but still better than 99% of TV ever made.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 22863
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Tesla

Post by Superbone »

I loved the series. Never thought about ranking the seasons. Enjoyed it all.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
pickle
Posts: 2076
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Tesla

Post by pickle »

Indy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:49 am
pickle wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:46 pm
I get what you guys are saying, but I think it just makes more financial sense to outsource, because the supplier can focus on the one specific product and not get bogged down by bureaucracies that run rampant in big companies. If GM were to build all its own components, then pretty much every part will suffer the same issues that the battery does, maybe even more so.

The thing with battery electric cars is that the technology itself is not particularly stable but it's being pushed out to automotive applications. In certain parts of the world, cars need to pass this puncture test where the battery pack is pierced through by a foreign object and not catch on fire for a certain amount of time, and literally no battery can do this, period. Besides the chips shortage, at some point some of the precious metals used in the batteries will put a ceiling on how many new battery packs can be built per year.

I know that BEVs are much easier maintenance and perceived to be more environmentally friendly, but all my friends that come to me for car advice, I tell them to stick to gasoline/diesel ones if they can... let the technology mature for a while. Unlike Tesla stock, Tesla cars won't grow higher in value with the passing of time...
I am not against finding experts in certain fields that do something better than anyone else, so you use them to supply things. But like Dack said, many multi-national corporations just start outsources EVERYTHING because they think it lowers their burden and lowers their scope of control (to limit their liability). That is where the problem comes from.

Great line from the under-rated season 2 of The Wire:

Not trying to justify the outsourcing, just saying that with the amount of bureaucracy in these larger companies that it's often more efficient, under certain market conditions, to outsource. I think the liability discussions are a result of that arrangement, rather than a driving force behind it, but I could be wrong.

On a whole, owning a car that's more or less trouble free is going to be fine no matter the brand. If you own a problematic car, then the traditional OEMs are gonna be much more robotic and unpleasant to deal with, compared to a Tesla or Nio (not available in the US as I understand it).

Post Reply