Mueller/Russia investigation

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:48 pm

The most constructive things we can do if we don't 100% agree on the politics of it are:

1 - Agree that gerrymandering is bad.
2 - Agree that we want to do something to fix/reduce it.
3 - Try to come up with a good clear definition of what constitutes a gerrymandered district.
4 - Make it so that you can't create/keep such districts.
5 - Put some mostly-non-partisan / bipartisan people in charge of fixing such districts and making them not be that way.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 am

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:40 pm

Nodack wrote:https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.
This decision is great progress. We need to fight back against partisan gerrymandering. I don't care what party it benefits; if the maps are drawn to disenfranchise voters, we need to redraw them.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:06 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Nodack wrote:https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.
This decision is great progress. We need to fight back against partisan gerrymandering. I don't care what party it benefits; if the maps are drawn to disenfranchise voters, we need to redraw them.
Would you allow yourself to feel so disenfranchised to not vote if you were in a heavy conservative precinct?
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:22 pm

I don't understand what your question is asking. Can you clarify? When I say that I want to reduce gerrymandering, I suggest something like the "efficiency rating" that others have discussed, where the efficacy of each vote and population distribution are taken into account when drawing districts, and none should be more than a certain percentage away from the expected. There are some good formulas for this stuff. It isn't about liberal vs conservative to me.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:01 pm

I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:44 am

Gerrymandering is cheating, plain and simple, no matter who is doing it.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:40 am

In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:14 am

It seems like In2 is splitting hairs in this thread. I just don't get why anybody defends or tolerates practices like this that subvert the public's vote. Do you really want that in your country?

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:22 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:It seems like In2 is splitting hairs in this thread. I just don't get why anybody defends or tolerates practices like this that subvert the public's vote. Do you really want that in your country?
I don't think anyone wants that, and I don't think anyone is defending it either. I'm certainly not.
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:26 am

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:58 am

In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:03 am

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.
I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:17 pm

In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.
I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.
And I am sorry for our misunderstanding. Hugs?

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote: Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.
I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.
And I am sorry for our misunderstanding. Hugs?
Ah, I like hugs. Haha
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 am

<3

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:25 am

We haven't really had any chitchat here about this whole Nunes memo thing. I found the whole thing ridiculous and reprehensible. The GOP is trying to undermine the DOJ and FBI. This should be cause for huge concern; our administration is trying to attack the government and challenge justice and the rule of law. And now that it appears to be a Grade A nothing-burger, there seems to be no consequence for the whole charade.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:41 pm

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

Rinse and repeat.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:03 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:We haven't really had any chitchat here about this whole Nunes memo thing. I found the whole thing ridiculous and reprehensible. The GOP is trying to undermine the DOJ and FBI. This should be cause for huge concern; our administration is trying to attack the government and challenge justice and the rule of law. And now that it appears to be a Grade A nothing-burger, there seems to be no consequence for the whole charade.
That is correct. There are no consequences anymore.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:07 pm

Their consequences are they look like fools. Of course it’s all just another deflection attempt that failed. Who financed Trumps golf courses? It wasn’t Americans... Trump is owned by Russia and the FBI knows it.

Trump isn’t bragging about his stock market today...

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