Mueller/Russia investigation

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:48 pm

The most constructive things we can do if we don't 100% agree on the politics of it are:

1 - Agree that gerrymandering is bad.
2 - Agree that we want to do something to fix/reduce it.
3 - Try to come up with a good clear definition of what constitutes a gerrymandered district.
4 - Make it so that you can't create/keep such districts.
5 - Put some mostly-non-partisan / bipartisan people in charge of fixing such districts and making them not be that way.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Nodack » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 am

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:40 pm

Nodack wrote:https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/01/10/576966545/n-c-gerrymandered-map-ruled-unconstitutional-by-panel-of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.


This decision is great progress. We need to fight back against partisan gerrymandering. I don't care what party it benefits; if the maps are drawn to disenfranchise voters, we need to redraw them.
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:06 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Nodack wrote:https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/01/10/576966545/n-c-gerrymandered-map-ruled-unconstitutional-by-panel-of-judges
Gerrymandered Map Ruled Unconstitutional By Panel Of Judges. A three-judge panel ruled late Tuesday that North Carolina's congressional district map was illegally gerrymandered because of excessive partisanship that gave Republicans a solid advantage for most of the seats.

North Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Wayne Goodwin called the ruling a "major victory for North Carolina and people across the state whose voices were silenced by Republicans' unconstitutional attempts to rig the system to their partisan advantage."

Republicans, however, promise an appeal.


This decision is great progress. We need to fight back against partisan gerrymandering. I don't care what party it benefits; if the maps are drawn to disenfranchise voters, we need to redraw them.

Would you allow yourself to feel so disenfranchised to not vote if you were in a heavy conservative precinct?
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:22 pm

I don't understand what your question is asking. Can you clarify? When I say that I want to reduce gerrymandering, I suggest something like the "efficiency rating" that others have discussed, where the efficacy of each vote and population distribution are taken into account when drawing districts, and none should be more than a certain percentage away from the expected. There are some good formulas for this stuff. It isn't about liberal vs conservative to me.
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:01 pm

I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Nodack » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:44 am

Gerrymandering is cheating, plain and simple, no matter who is doing it.
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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:40 am

In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.

Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:14 am

It seems like In2 is splitting hairs in this thread. I just don't get why anybody defends or tolerates practices like this that subvert the public's vote. Do you really want that in your country?
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:22 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:It seems like In2 is splitting hairs in this thread. I just don't get why anybody defends or tolerates practices like this that subvert the public's vote. Do you really want that in your country?

I don't think anyone wants that, and I don't think anyone is defending it either. I'm certainly not.
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:26 am

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.

Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.
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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:58 am

In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.

Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.

Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:03 am

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.

Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.

Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.

I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.
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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Indy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:17 pm

In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:I'm not for gerrymandering, and it would piss me off, nut it wouldn't disenfranchise me.

Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.

Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.

I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.

And I am sorry for our misunderstanding. Hugs?
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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby In2ition » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Indy wrote:Of course it would. That doesn't mean you would be prevented from voting. It means your vote wouldn't count, because you would be placed in a district where it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry, it wouldn't disenfranchise me. I would still vote.

Why are you sorry? And just because you cast a ballot, doesn't mean you aren't disenfranchised. That is exactly what all of these cases are stating.

I thought you meant the feeling of being disenfranchised, note the vote being disenfranchised. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you.

And I am sorry for our misunderstanding. Hugs?

Ah, I like hugs. Haha
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Postby Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 am

<3

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