Mueller/Russia investigation

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:26 pm

If I am to believe Trump and his attorney, Obama, Hillary, the Media, DOJ and the FBI all conspired to frame Trump. I have a real hard time believing that. I haven’t seen any evidence to back up those claims. The closest I have seen to evidence and on their side is them saying some FBI agents wives voted Democrat, therefore making the FBI agents Obama spies. That’s ridiculous. There is about a 50/50 chance everybody’s wife is a Democrat or Republican. Democrats could complain that FBI agents wives voted Republican too. That’s grasping at straws IMO. Four of Trumps team have been charged with real crimes like conspiracy against the United States.

I saved articles I thought were note worthy.

MOSCOW TRUMP TOWER
Trump’s business sought deal on a Trump Tower in Moscow while he ran for president
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... b91cfdc817

Trump attorney reached out to Kremlin to pursue Moscow Trump Tower project
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/politics ... index.html

Trump signed letter of intent for Russian tower during campaign, lawyer says
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-kn ... d=49472342

Donald Trump 'was planning Trump Tower in Moscow' as he embarked on presidential bid
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08 ... sidential/

Trump's firm sought Moscow real estate deal during presidential run: Washington Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1B806D

Michael Cohen: The Trump Tower Moscow proposal was 'solely a real estate deal'
http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-trump ... eal-2017-9

TRUMP GOLF COURSES

ERIC TRUMP REPORTEDLY BRAGGED ABOUT ACCESS TO $100 MILLION IN RUSSIAN MONEY
“We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/05 ... olf-course


Golf writer: Eric Trump said father's golf courses were funded by Russians
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05 ... sians.html



Eric Trump: 'We have all the funding we need out of Russia' for Trump golf courses
http://www.businessinsider.com/eric-tru ... ing-2017-5

'MAFIA' DON President Donald Trump’s Scots golf courses may have been ‘financed with Russian mafia dirty cash’
Sensational allegations against the US President emerged at a Washington hearing into his alleged links with Moscow
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2 ... irty-cash/

Business projects of Donald Trump in Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ ... _in_Russia


TILLERSON’S RUSSIAN OIL DEAL

Rex Tillerson’s Company, Exxon, Has Billions at Stake Over Sanctions on Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/worl ... tions.html

Exxon sues U.S. over fine levied for Russia deal under Tillerson
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-exxo ... SKBN1A51UH

Tillerson's Exxon violated Russia sanctions, Treasury says
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/20/investi ... index.html

A timeline of Rex Tillerson's relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-re ... on-2016-12

Behind the deep ties between Exxon's Rex Tillerson and Russia
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/11/investi ... index.html

The president-elect has chosen Exxon Mobil CEO as secretary of state but experts say Senate may bridle over realpolitik choice that would benefit Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ssia-putin
Rex Tillerson’s nomination as the next secretary of state confirms Vladimir Putin as one of the strategic victors of the US presidential election.

Donald Trump’s pick for secretary of state is a Putin-friendly Exxon CEO
https://www.vox.com/2016/12/10/13908108 ... nald-trump


MANAFORT/GATES PRO RUSSIAN LOBBYISTS

Former Trump Aides Charged as Prosecutors Reveal New Campaign Ties With Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/p ... icted.html

Here are Paul Manafort's lobbying ties to Russia that may have led to the FBI raid
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/here- ... le/2631051

Paul Manafort and Rick Gates have been charged with money laundering, while ex-adviser George Papadopoulos cut a plea deal for lying about Russia-linked contacts.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/ ... ies-244305

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was just indicted — here's what you need to know about him. The two were charged with several federal crimes, including conspiracy against the United States.
http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-p ... obe-2017-3

Manafort earned $600,000 a month from pro-Russia party: Ukrainian report
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 816242001/

TRUMP/RUSSIA ELECTION MEDDLING

What more evidence of Trump-Russia collusion do you need?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html

Donald Trump Jr. releases email chain on his Russian meeting
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/11/politics ... index.html

What is the significance of Trump Jr's meeting with a Russian lawyer?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ian-lawyer

Trump campaign analytics company contacted WikiLeaks about Clinton emails
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/politics ... index.html

JARED KUSHNER HIDING INFORMATION ABOUT RUSSIA BACKDOOR AND WIKILEAKS CONTACTS, SENATORS SAY
http://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-t ... aks-715349

Donald Trump Jr. confirms communicating with WikiLeaks
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/ ... aks-244862

New twist in Russia probe as Donald Trump Jr releases WikiLeaks messages over Clinton's hacked emails
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11 ... -campaign/

Donald Trump Jr.'s Secret WikiLeaks Relationship Is Unveiled
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-unveiled

Christopher Steele, the Man Behind the Trump Dossier
How the ex-spy tried to warn the world about Trump’s ties to Russia.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... mp-dossier

Today there is new news about Cambridge Alalytica, a company Trump hired for $6,000,000. Robert Mercer a wealthy Republican paid them $15,000,000. They appearently did some sneaky illegal things.

How Trump Consultants Exploited the Facebook Data of Millions
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/us/p ... paign.html

Cambridge Analytica exec says they 'ran all the digital campaign' for Trump: report
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/37 ... mpaign-for

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:28 pm

The dirt on Cambridge Analytica is disturbing. They believe they've swayed roughly 200 elections across the globe.

So tell me, Redhats, who's the "deep state", and who are the globalists? I'll wait.

(Not directed at anyone here in particular. Just venting out loud.)
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:30 pm

The thing that probably brings Trump down will be the multiple affairs with Playboy bunny’s and porn stars and I don’t really care about that.

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carey
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Re: RE: Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by carey » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:40 pm

Nodack wrote:The thing that probably brings Trump down will be the multiple affairs with Playboy bunny’s and porn stars and I don’t really care about that.
I doubt it. Unless they can prove he used campaign funds to pay them off.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:56 pm

See Stormy Daniels thread. I have some zany links about that.

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:13 pm

Just playing devil's advocate:

I could see a Trump fallback strategy being Mueller was put in place to investigate the possibility of collusion and nothing else. So in Trump's eyes, whatever Mueller finds regarding his finances is off limits. Even if there are massive conflicts of interests with finances, business dealings, not paying taxes or reporting income - so long as it doesn't prove collusion - Trump is in the clear. And just because Manafort and the others were working as foreign agents doesn't implicate Trump in any way in terms of actively and knowingly colluding with Russia during the election. Ethics violations around campaign finances? Not collusion. Possibly being compromised by other countries due to his business dealings or private affairs? Not collusion. Exploing data via social media? Not collusion. Should his entire family be put in jail over ethics violations, tax evasion, etc - probably. But that doesn't mean collusion.

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Cap
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Cap » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:09 pm

ShelC wrote:Just playing devil's advocate:

I could see a Trump fallback strategy being Mueller was put in place to investigate the possibility of collusion and nothing else. So in Trump's eyes, whatever Mueller finds regarding his finances is off limits.
Yeah, like Ken Starr was put in place to investigate Whitewater. These things go wherever they go.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against
TJ Warren will average 20+ points a game this year.... Mark it. — iLLmatic

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:17 am

I don’t think it matters to the FBI. A crime is a crime. Al Capone the famous Mafia boss during prohibition was charged by the FBI with mail fraud.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:21 am

ShelC wrote:Just playing devil's advocate:

I could see a Trump fallback strategy being Mueller was put in place to investigate the possibility of collusion and nothing else. So in Trump's eyes, whatever Mueller finds regarding his finances is off limits. Even if there are massive conflicts of interests with finances, business dealings, not paying taxes or reporting income - so long as it doesn't prove collusion - Trump is in the clear. And just because Manafort and the others were working as foreign agents doesn't implicate Trump in any way in terms of actively and knowingly colluding with Russia during the election. Ethics violations around campaign finances? Not collusion. Possibly being compromised by other countries due to his business dealings or private affairs? Not collusion. Exploing data via social media? Not collusion. Should his entire family be put in jail over ethics violations, tax evasion, etc - probably. But that doesn't mean collusion.
Let's just say that Trump had no idea his close advisers were colluding and laundering money for the campaign. It will be very interesting to see if SCOTUS upholds the Park Doctrine in this instance.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 am

Yeah, I think the two defenses they are ultimately going to fall back on are:

- Mr Trump himself didn't do the bad thing / didn't know about it, and
- The whole investigation is a witch hunt, they are not supposed to be investigating his entire life and business, just "collusion," which he didn't do.

I don't buy either of the above, but I think that's the general tactic they're going to use.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:23 am

I agree. But the Park doctrine dates back 40 years. It was a CEO saying he didn't know what his people were doing, but SCOTUS said he was the exec in charge, so ignorance isn't a defense.

From wiki: "The Court held that if someone were to willingly be in charge of a company, and therefore its problems, then he or she willingly accepts the consequences of any illegal practices that his or her company or organization is involved in. An exception is made if the problem is impossible to fix."

Only caveat (and it may be a huge one here), is that this was related to FDA laws, and the SCOTUS commented that because this company was violating "public welfare" statutes, they could hold Park strictly responsible. Not sure that will apply to other laws.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:23 am

Comey is releasing a new book detailing his dealings with Trump and says a lot of unflattering things. The book officially comes out tomorrow. Thanks to Trumps insults about it it will probably make it a best seller overnight. Comey was interviewed on ABC last night. I taped it and haven’t seen ot yet. I read a synopsis of it on the fake news today and Comey said Trump ubstructed justice and is unfit to be President on moral grounds. Trump and his supporters claim Comey is lying about everything. I’ll take Comey’s word over Trump’s word any day of the week.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:07 pm

I think the Comey book publicity tour may backfire on him. He has some interesting experiences to describe and interesting things to say, but I think he comes across as sanctimonious and smug in doing so. And the timing of his interviews is a clear cash grab related to the release of his book. I don't think he is helping his cause very much with his current public behavior. I also worry that it could undermine the public's confidence in the objectivity of the FBI and/or cause some Republicans or Trump supporters to decide that the President was justified in firing Comey and in his general obstruction of justice.

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Agreed. He's hurting his own credibility and becoming a bigger target for Trump, Fox and their followers.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:47 pm

I watched the interview on ABC and Comey comes off as genuine to me. I think he is an honest guy that tried to to do what he thought was right for the country and the FBI and tried to ignore the politics. He knew no matter what he did half the country would hate him no matter what. I am sure he was pissed off being fired by Trump for political reasons and probably didn’t need to add the personal touches like describing Trumps orange face and hair that seemed real enough to Comey that he figured took all morning to get right and his small hands. None of that stuff really matters.

What matters is Trump asking Comey to meet with him, telling everybody else to leave the room so he could talk to Comey in private and then asking Comey for his loyalty, asking him to end the Russian Investigation into Flynn and then lying about it afterword with a straight face like the well over 1000 other times he has lied. I guess it comes down to who you believe is lying. I think Trump has proven himself a serial liar to me and Comey’s record is pretty spotless as the nations top law enforcement guy.

Comey admitted he leaked the unclassified info to the press because he thought is was important that the info reached the American people. He was asked if he thinks Trump should be impeached and he said no. He thinks America should do the talking at the voting booth instead.

IMO Comey’s shoe laces have more honor than Trump.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:07 am

Democratic Party files a lawsuit alleging a Trump/Russia conspiracy to disrupt the 2016 Presidential election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... edirect=on

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:15 pm

I saw that. I don’t even know what to think. Just another cog was in the partisan fight that is tearing the country apart. I am so disgusted with American politics. Our system is fundamentally flawed and needs an overhaul.

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:42 pm

Poor decision by the DNC, especially before Mueller's investigation is finished. And to be fair, there's more evidence that the DNC flat out colluded against Bernie. He should sue them, if anything.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:10 pm

They did collude within the party to give Hillary the nomination, not with a foriegn country who hates America and it trying to harm us.

The GOP also colluded within their party to keep Trump from getting the nomination. The Steele dossier came from the GOP trying to stop him. The Dems hired Steele after Trump won the nomination and the GOP gave up and were forced to embrace Trump or perish.

Bernie won’t sue them because they are on the same team. They owe him though.

Politics are dirty nasty stuff.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:25 am

ShelC wrote:Poor decision by the DNC, especially before Mueller's investigation is finished. And to be fair, there's more evidence that the DNC flat out colluded against Bernie. He should sue them, if anything.
I don't like what they did to Bernie. But there are some important things to remember:

- Ultimately, who a party nominates is entirely up to that party. If the DNC wants Hillary, they can nominate her. They aren't required to hold primaries or even to let other candidates apply. The fact that they take votes at all is just a courtesy. I don't support them shoehorning in a candidate who isn't wanted the most by the people; I'm just saying that favoring Hillary as they did is not illegal.

- The main reason Hillary had an unfair advantage was due to the "superdelegate" system where voting delegates could pledge their support to Hillary before listening to the will of the people (or just ignoring the will of the people). In response to the many complaints about the 2016 Dem primary, they have changed their system to give less weight and importance to the superdelegates. This would help avoid a similar problem in the future.

- The word "collusion" gets thrown around a lot. People "collude" a lot in non-illegal or non-harmful ways when they work together on things. The problem is colluding with an enemy foreign nation to subvert our Presidential election. If that happened, it is orders of magnitude worse than anything involving Bernie Sanders vs Hillary Clinton.

I do agree that the lawsuit is dumb and unhelpful. I read that the reason they filed it is because there is a 2-year statute of limitations on filing any such lawsuit, so if they didn't file now, they would basically never be able to file a lawsuit and use 2016 events as evidence if more wrongdoing is discovered later.

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