Impeachment

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:08 pm
Trump could shoot the Pope in front of the Senate and they say it was a nothingburger.
Well, you know, he isn't an American.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

True. They would just claim he was a terrorist and it would be legal.

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Superbone
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone »

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:36 pm
True. They would just claim he was a terrorist and it would be legal.
And that the Pope had been planning some imminent attacks. Or "eminent" as Trump says in his tweet.
"Be Legendary."

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virtual9mm
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Re: Impeachment

Post by virtual9mm »

I am starting to think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the United States. It looks an awful lot like Weimar -- liberals pushing an unpopular and excessively liberal agenda while anti-democratic forces consolidate power with a plurality of the vote. All sorts of crazy fictions are gaining the status of truth and a President who has pretty much committed treason is getting away with it to applause and cries of a "witch hunt".

Meanwhile, the elites who might have had a chance to stop the madness say stuff like "this isn't affecting our day-to-day lives" and "you have to live without overthinking things" while talking about how Bernie Sanders is just as bad as Trump. In the meanwhile, voter suppression, gerrymandering, and widespread disenfranchisement is being used to subvert democracy in favor of something that looks like the "democracy" found in Hong Kong or Turkey.

Tell me that I am crazy and that I'm overthinking things. I'd love to be proven wrong and I'm open to arguments saying so.

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carey
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Re: Impeachment

Post by carey »

virtual9mm wrote:I am starting to think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the United States. It looks an awful lot like Weimar -- liberals pushing an unpopular and excessively liberal agenda while anti-democratic forces consolidate power with a plurality of the vote. All sorts of crazy fictions are gaining the status of truth and a President who has pretty much committed treason is getting away with it to applause and cries of a "witch hunt".

Meanwhile, the elites who might have had a chance to stop the madness say stuff like "this isn't affecting our day-to-day lives" and "you have to live without overthinking things" while talking about how Bernie Sanders is just as bad as Trump. In the meanwhile, voter suppression, gerrymandering, and widespread disenfranchisement is being used to subvert democracy in favor of something that looks like the "democracy" found in Hong Kong or Turkey.

Tell me that I am crazy and that I'm overthinking things. I'd love to be proven wrong and I'm open to arguments saying so.
You’re not. It’s basically where I am with all of it.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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ShelC
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Re: Impeachment

Post by ShelC »

I've already accepted the fact that our democracy is dead. We're already there. All the impeachment proceedings, articles, etc are political theater while Trump remains in office consolidating his power. He will never leave office. And if he ever does, there will be a succession plan that will allow the GOP to remain in control. And most will go along, accept it, get used to it because as Virtual said, it doesn't affect their everyday lives. Russia, Turkey, China...that's where we're at. And all of the those leaders are in together making themselves and their buddies rich.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

I've become quite depressed about all of this lately as well. I don't quite see it the same way as V9 does, that Dems are marginalizing themselves with extreme policies. I do think the current media and social media climate are completely toxic and make it really hard to learn anything approaching objective truth to make informed decisions. So everyone retreats into distrust and partisanship, doubting what they hear and see, falling back on tribalism and instinct. Trump is if nothing else a strong politician for such times, able to take advantage of the flaws of the current system.

Meanwhile the planet burns and the time ticks away to save any life on this earth. Our children or grandchildren will probably die from climate change and we do very little about it. It's really sad to think about how all of this may turn out.

I think the 2020 election is the last gasp of hope for the future of the country. If Trump is re-elected, I don't know what limit there is to the damage he can cause to the US and the world.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

Our Democracy is hurting for sure. My hero growing up was John Wayne and the character her portrayed in his movies. A big strong man with courage to always do the right thing no matter what. His handshake was his bond and he never lied. I had an uncle that practically raised me that was my real life John Wayne. He could do anything, build anything and he always did the right thing and never lied.

Trump is the opposite. He is the evil guy in all the John Wayne movies. And he is thought of as “Gods Chosen One” by his supporters. It makes me sick. If America is this easily duped into thinking an amoral narcissistic serial lying racist sexual predator ego maniac draft dodging tax evading russian puppet con man criminal traitor is “Gods Chosen One” we are all screwed.

If the Senate holds a farce trial, shows no witnesses, no evidence and rubber stamps his acquittal, it will be a seriously dark time for America and Democracy.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

The first day of the trial has been going on today. It's becoming a joke. McConnell has changed the rules and will make the senators vote on whether to allow any witnesses and even on whether to allow the previous existing evidence and testimony from the House impeachment investigation. They're going to shut the whole thing down and then vote to exonerate in the middle of the night. It's a complete breakdown of our system of checks and balances.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

And no one is surprised.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

So far the votes have been party-line, 53 to 47, with no Republicans voting in favor of evidence or witnesses. The republic falls before our eyes.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

I wouldn’t go that far. We and the rest of America can see what’s going on and there is a huge election in less than a year that will ultimately decide the fate of our Democracy for a few more years. Nobody expects the Republicans to defy Trump in any way and we already know no amount of evidence or witnesses is going to change that. A fake trial could haunt them or it could help them. America decides...

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

I think we may be okay so long as the 2020 election is free and fair. One of the most disconcerting signs I have seen in the past several years is the consistent efforts by the GOP to block access to voting rights for so many Americans.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

One weird thing, Rudy Giuliani. He is the guy Trump put in charge of the Ukrainian scheme. He is the center piece. Nobody is asking him to testify. The two guys who were Rudy’s guys in the Ukraine were arrested right after meeting with Rudy in Trump Tower. Lev, one of them spilled his guts and implicated everyone including Trump. They want him to testify. Is Rudy under investigation by law enforcement?

Weird

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

Nodack wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:53 am
One weird thing, Rudy Giuliani. He is the guy Trump put in charge of the Ukrainian scheme. He is the center piece. Nobody is asking him to testify. The two guys who were Rudy’s guys in the Ukraine were arrested right after meeting with Rudy in Trump Tower. Lev, one of them spilled his guts and implicated everyone including Trump. They want him to testify. Is Rudy under investigation by law enforcement?

Weird
Yeah, I agree. I haven't heard anybody ask to arrest or investigate or indict Rudy. Why not? Isn't it clear that he is right in the center of all this shady activity? Are they monitoring him or trying to entrap him or something? Seems weird.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Impeachment

Post by virtual9mm »

I would think that the 2020 election would be free and fair but that it may be the last one like that. Right now, I think that the most likely outcome is that Trump loses the popular vote but wins the electoral college again. Dems hang onto the House, for whatever good that does. What really needs to happen is that the Dems need to win the Senate. But that is looking unlikely.

Thanks for all of your responses -- looks like I'm not the only one with these dark thoughts.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

The scariest part is seeing just how far the Republicans are willing to go to cover for Trump. The Democrats have done a good job at presenting mountains of evidence against Trump and not one Republican has acknowledged any of the evidence. They just pretend it doesn’t exist.

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ShelC
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Re: Impeachment

Post by ShelC »

Rs will only turn once it costs them their jobs and/or money. Until that happens, there's no reason to get rid of Trump or go against him. They're riding the gravy train.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu »

I was reading that the senators don't feel much pressure because they aren't getting a lot of calls and letters about the impeachment. By contrast they were flooded with angry voters about the possibility of repealing ObamaCare, so they backed off and still have not repealed it. I guess folks aren't mad enough about impeachment stuff to write/call en masse. I get the sense that many people are kind of resigned to it, that they know he'll be exonerated and don't think there's anything they can do about it.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack »

The true barometer will be November.

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