Coronavirus

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
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In2ition
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by In2ition »

It's fine. I've also been closely personally affected by this recently and the healthcare system involved. In fact, it was just yesterday afternoon, and it's been devastating to my family. You are free to vent all you want, and I hope it helps.

I'm going to take an extended break from this subject, as I'm clearly not helping matters. Whatever happens, is going to happen, with or without me.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack »

I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been affected by this.

For me, one side is trying to do what they can to get through this and save as many lives as possible. They aren’t perfect and make mistakes but, they try.

The other side wants to just ignore Covid and not do anything about it at all except complain about the other side’s attempts to quell the virus. It’s the same stance they take on everything. Gun violence? Do nothing. Health care? Do nothing. Global warming? Do nothing is their stance. Ignore the problems and they will go away.

JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been affected by this.

For me, one side is trying to do what they can to get through this and save as many lives as possible. They aren’t perfect and make mistakes but, they try.

The other side wants to just ignore Covid and not do anything about it at all except complain about the other side’s attempts to quell the virus. It’s the same stance they take on everything. Gun violence? Do nothing. Health care? Do nothing. Global warming? Do nothing is their stance. Ignore the problems and they will go away.
Please stop with the false dichotomy of the left-right paradigm. There are not only two sides or opinions in this world. :roll:

JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:17 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:26 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:07 pm
Yeah, so wear a non-cloth mask, an N95.
Lol, isn't that what I got ridiculed on here for a year and a half ago? For saying that non-N95 masks are not effective?

And for mandates, what is the point of a mask mandate if it's not an N95 mask mandate?
Cloth masks help. They double your protection over nothing. Effective isn't just a yes/no measure.

And honestly, nothing really protects you much if the infected person is maskless.

Image
That was before Omicron, which is even more transmissible. In fact the 15 minute time was outdated at least by Delta. But assuming your chart was accurate previously, that means that mask mandates were 100% useless for any activity or event which lasts more than 27 minutes, if people are wearing cloth masks. Do you see a problem here? In fact, if you are sitting next to someone at a basketball game for more than 60 minutes, then even both parties wearing surgical masks offers zero protection.

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:10 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been affected by this.

For me, one side is trying to do what they can to get through this and save as many lives as possible. They aren’t perfect and make mistakes but, they try.

The other side wants to just ignore Covid and not do anything about it at all except complain about the other side’s attempts to quell the virus. It’s the same stance they take on everything. Gun violence? Do nothing. Health care? Do nothing. Global warming? Do nothing is their stance. Ignore the problems and they will go away.
Please stop with the false dichotomy of the left-right paradigm. There are not only two sides or opinions in this world. :roll:
There are definitely only two sides dominating politics in America. :roll:

JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:10 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been affected by this.

For me, one side is trying to do what they can to get through this and save as many lives as possible. They aren’t perfect and make mistakes but, they try.

The other side wants to just ignore Covid and not do anything about it at all except complain about the other side’s attempts to quell the virus. It’s the same stance they take on everything. Gun violence? Do nothing. Health care? Do nothing. Global warming? Do nothing is their stance. Ignore the problems and they will go away.
Please stop with the false dichotomy of the left-right paradigm. There are not only two sides or opinions in this world. :roll:
There are definitely only two sides dominating politics in America. :roll:
Which is exactly the problem in America. Perhaps the RNC refusing to participate in the presidential debates will open things up beyond a two-party dominance.

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Indy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:55 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:44 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:10 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been affected by this.

For me, one side is trying to do what they can to get through this and save as many lives as possible. They aren’t perfect and make mistakes but, they try.

The other side wants to just ignore Covid and not do anything about it at all except complain about the other side’s attempts to quell the virus. It’s the same stance they take on everything. Gun violence? Do nothing. Health care? Do nothing. Global warming? Do nothing is their stance. Ignore the problems and they will go away.
Please stop with the false dichotomy of the left-right paradigm. There are not only two sides or opinions in this world. :roll:
There are definitely only two sides dominating politics in America. :roll:
Which is exactly the problem in America. Perhaps the RNC refusing to participate in the presidential debates will open things up beyond a two-party dominance.
One can only hope that the Republican and Democrat parties both have little to representation fairly soon. Both suck for the average American (although for very different reasons).

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce »

Let’s not pretend like the dems give a shit about people any more than the republicans. Look at all the bullshit that gets packed into all these bills. All these politicians are in it for themselves and their business interests. The democrats are just better at the poker face and faking it.

I agree the republicans are absolute morons when it comes to COVID and social issues, but aside from that both sides suck

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack »

specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
Let’s not pretend like the dems give a shit about people any more than the republicans. Look at all the bullshit that gets packed into all these bills. All these politicians are in it for themselves and their business interests. The democrats are just better at the poker face and faking it.

I agree the republicans are absolute morons when it comes to COVID and social issues, but aside from that both sides suck
Could you point out some of that BS? I truly don’t know what it was. I know they packed in stuff with the infrastructure bill like child care for working women and that seems like something where they do care. Going green seems like they care. Obamacare was them caring about those Americans without health care. I would be interested in knowing what the other bad stuff was showing they don’t care was.

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack »


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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »


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virtual9mm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by virtual9mm »

I had high hopes that the Biden Administration would mean a return to competence and decency.

I feel that we've had some amount of decency -- if you ignore the massive bloodstain that was the Afghanistan debacle -- but competence? The Dems can't even get their own legislation passed. And we've had our version of the Reichstag fire and practically nothing has been done.

But the Republicans...wow. It's incredible to me how easily Americans are forgetting the 800,000 Americans that died of COVID -- more than every American killed across WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and all the Gulf wars combined -- and that any response short of the asinine attitude of the Trump Administration could have reduced deaths by more than 500,000 by some estimates. I'm watching (in complete and utter disbelief) Hong Kong contain and roll back Omicron -- I'm not sure it's a good thing (since Omicron really isn't anywhere near bad) -- but I can't help but be reminded about how unbelievably terrible the Trump Administration was. The CDC under Biden hasn't exactly been stellar but even at that level of semi-incompetence, we could have saved more or less the population of every man, woman, and child in Tucson.

I just can't understand how that very inconvenient fact has been brushed under the rug. Indeed, more than anything else, it's convinced me that it would take nothing short of divine intervention to put the US back on track.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

I like this sort of thing because it punishes people for taxing the shared system and denying care to others.


JeremyG
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JeremyG »

virtual9mm wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:49 am
I had high hopes that the Biden Administration would mean a return to competence and decency.

I feel that we've had some amount of decency -- if you ignore the massive bloodstain that was the Afghanistan debacle -- but competence? The Dems can't even get their own legislation passed. And we've had our version of the Reichstag fire and practically nothing has been done.

But the Republicans...wow. It's incredible to me how easily Americans are forgetting the 800,000 Americans that died of COVID -- more than every American killed across WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and all the Gulf wars combined -- and that any response short of the asinine attitude of the Trump Administration could have reduced deaths by more than 500,000 by some estimates. I'm watching (in complete and utter disbelief) Hong Kong contain and roll back Omicron -- I'm not sure it's a good thing (since Omicron really isn't anywhere near bad) -- but I can't help but be reminded about how unbelievably terrible the Trump Administration was. The CDC under Biden hasn't exactly been stellar but even at that level of semi-incompetence, we could have saved more or less the population of every man, woman, and child in Tucson.

I just can't understand how that very inconvenient fact has been brushed under the rug. Indeed, more than anything else, it's convinced me that it would take nothing short of divine intervention to put the US back on track.
I'm not so sure that if Biden had been President a year sooner that 500,000 deaths would have been prevented. If you're claiming that stricter lockdowns would have accomplished that, then I don't believe that even Biden would have implemented any stricter lockdowns than what the 50 governors implemented.

According to Worldometers, on January 20, 2021 (the day Biden became President), there had been 435,089 deaths reported. Since January 20, there have been an additional 436,997 deaths reported.

In 2020, 370,776 deaths were reported. In 2021, 477,814 deaths were reported. Even if we say 2020 was only about 9.5 months, that's 39,029 deaths per month in 2020 and 39,818 deaths per month in 2021.

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

EDIT: Of course if you adjust for delays in deaths and delays in reporting of deaths then these numbers would be somewhat different.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:00 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
Let’s not pretend like the dems give a shit about people any more than the republicans. Look at all the bullshit that gets packed into all these bills. All these politicians are in it for themselves and their business interests. The democrats are just better at the poker face and faking it.

I agree the republicans are absolute morons when it comes to COVID and social issues, but aside from that both sides suck
Could you point out some of that BS? I truly don’t know what it was. I know they packed in stuff with the infrastructure bill like child care for working women and that seems like something where they do care. Going green seems like they care. Obamacare was them caring about those Americans without health care. I would be interested in knowing what the other bad stuff was showing they don’t care was.
If you think 3.5 trillion dollars is being spent in good will and that liberals are honest people not influenced by lobbyists and deals that they make on the side to sway their votes, I don’t know how to change your opinion on that.

Joe Bidens net worth as a career politician is ridiculous. If you think he earned it as Honest Joe, well we’ll agree to disagree.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by virtual9mm »

JeremyG wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:58 pm
virtual9mm wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:49 am
I had high hopes that the Biden Administration would mean a return to competence and decency.

I feel that we've had some amount of decency -- if you ignore the massive bloodstain that was the Afghanistan debacle -- but competence? The Dems can't even get their own legislation passed. And we've had our version of the Reichstag fire and practically nothing has been done.

But the Republicans...wow. It's incredible to me how easily Americans are forgetting the 800,000 Americans that died of COVID -- more than every American killed across WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and all the Gulf wars combined -- and that any response short of the asinine attitude of the Trump Administration could have reduced deaths by more than 500,000 by some estimates. I'm watching (in complete and utter disbelief) Hong Kong contain and roll back Omicron -- I'm not sure it's a good thing (since Omicron really isn't anywhere near bad) -- but I can't help but be reminded about how unbelievably terrible the Trump Administration was. The CDC under Biden hasn't exactly been stellar but even at that level of semi-incompetence, we could have saved more or less the population of every man, woman, and child in Tucson.

I just can't understand how that very inconvenient fact has been brushed under the rug. Indeed, more than anything else, it's convinced me that it would take nothing short of divine intervention to put the US back on track.
I'm not so sure that if Biden had been President a year sooner that 500,000 deaths would have been prevented. If you're claiming that stricter lockdowns would have accomplished that, then I don't believe that even Biden would have implemented any stricter lockdowns than what the 50 governors implemented.

According to Worldometers, on January 20, 2021 (the day Biden became President), there had been 435,089 deaths reported. Since January 20, there have been an additional 436,997 deaths reported.

In 2020, 370,776 deaths were reported. In 2021, 477,814 deaths were reported. Even if we say 2020 was only about 9.5 months, that's 39,029 deaths per month in 2020 and 39,818 deaths per month in 2021.

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

EDIT: Of course if you adjust for delays in deaths and delays in reporting of deaths then these numbers would be somewhat different.
I forget the exact article where I read this but the estimate was from several months ago and I was extrapolating from something that read like "2/3rds of 600,000". I know that it is really dangerous not to be exact in this day and age. However -- how many lives would a simple mask mandate have saved? When both parties are wearing good masks, you cut transmission by 97%. Even if many did not follow it or even if it was not in federal jurisdiction in many cases, even a partial mask mandate would have saved hundreds of thousands. By the time you got to Biden, there was less that could have been done. COVID was already all over the place.

For a comparison that works, try comparing the US to Australia. Or even Canada. One had a conservative in power but went as far as to do sweeping lockdowns. The other did not take such drastic measures but still did far better than the US. 31k deaths for Canada, with the population being a bit more than 10% of the US, the equivalent of like 270k in the US. And only 2600 for Australia, with a population about 2/3rds of Canada.

Even if AUS level lockdowns were unrealistic in the US, we could have been more like Canada. I think Americans have lost a sense of perspective about how truly bad our response has been.

Reading stuff like this...I sigh...watching the downfall of the US
Last edited by virtual9mm on Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mori Chu »

I'm not so sure that if Biden had been President a year sooner that 500,000 deaths would have been prevented.
The problem is that Biden does not really have the power to compel the country to behave differently. The core problem is that a large fraction of the country is acting in profoundly unsafe ways that are endangering themselves and those around them. Biden and the Dems cannot really stop that with legislation or various executive orders.

If we had more of a sense of kinship and civic duty, of obligation to help one another regardless of tribe, we could squish almost all of the cases of COVID in the country. But we don't. So it rages through our population and kills thousands per day. An absolutely stunning indictment of our culture and our collective behavior as a people.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by virtual9mm »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:48 pm
I'm not so sure that if Biden had been President a year sooner that 500,000 deaths would have been prevented.
The problem is that Biden does not really have the power to compel the country to behave differently. The core problem is that a large fraction of the country is acting in profoundly unsafe ways that are endangering themselves and those around them. Biden and the Dems cannot really stop that with legislation or various executive orders.

If we had more of a sense of kinship and civic duty, of obligation to help one another regardless of tribe, we could squish almost all of the cases of COVID in the country. But we don't. So it rages through our population and kills thousands per day. An absolutely stunning indictment of our culture and our collective behavior as a people.
In one word...yes. Had Trump worn masks and done the right things instead of politicizing it...sigh.

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specialsauce
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by specialsauce »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:48 pm
I'm not so sure that if Biden had been President a year sooner that 500,000 deaths would have been prevented.
The problem is that Biden does not really have the power to compel the country to behave differently. The core problem is that a large fraction of the country is acting in profoundly unsafe ways that are endangering themselves and those around them. Biden and the Dems cannot really stop that with legislation or various executive orders.

If we had more of a sense of kinship and civic duty, of obligation to help one another regardless of tribe, we could squish almost all of the cases of COVID in the country. But we don't. So it rages through our population and kills thousands per day. An absolutely stunning indictment of our culture and our collective behavior as a people.
People think being patriotic means obnoxiously driving around town with a U.S. flag and wearing a U.S. flag tshirt and hat. It gives you the right to act like an absolute ass and treat your fellow countrymen like shit. It’s the opposite of being patriotic. Fake patriots

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Nodack
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Nodack »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:25 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:00 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
Let’s not pretend like the dems give a shit about people any more than the republicans. Look at all the bullshit that gets packed into all these bills. All these politicians are in it for themselves and their business interests. The democrats are just better at the poker face and faking it.

I agree the republicans are absolute morons when it comes to COVID and social issues, but aside from that both sides suck
Could you point out some of that BS? I truly don’t know what it was. I know they packed in stuff with the infrastructure bill like child care for working women and that seems like something where they do care. Going green seems like they care. Obamacare was them caring about those Americans without health care. I would be interested in knowing what the other bad stuff was showing they don’t care was.
If you think 3.5 trillion dollars is being spent in good will and that liberals are honest people not influenced by lobbyists and deals that they make on the side to sway their votes, I don’t know how to change your opinion on that.

Joe Bidens net worth as a career politician is ridiculous. If you think he earned it as Honest Joe, well we’ll agree to disagree.
You didn’t answer my question at all. You just said you don’t trust Democrats so, they must be doing something bad, which is the same as Trump saying the election was stolen. Both statements aren’t based on any facts. It’s based on your general opinion of Dem politicians. So you don’t actually know what was in the bill at all.

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