Russia/Ukraine

[Nodack]

No NATO country has put any troops in Ukraine. What would Republicans have said if Biden placed troops in Ukraine? They would have pounced at Biden starting the war. Half of them are pro Putin already.

[Indy]

How many European places have US Military battalions that are not part of NATO?

[Nodack]

I don’t know.

[Mori Chu]

Now that I'm on this thread...why the heck didn't Biden simply put a token American military presence in Kiev? It wouldn't take much, like an airborne battalion. Just a signal to let Putin know that we wouldn't roll over.

Come to think about it, it's the same mistake Joe made in Afghanistan, isn't it.

I'm not a military expert, but my sense of it was that the moment we send a bunch of American troops and vehicles and weaponry over there, we're committed to stay there for a while and committed to be directly involved in any sort of armed conflict that breaks out there. And we just finally got out of Afghanistan and the Middle East and are maybe a bit wary of charging in guns blazing (or guns ready to blaze) if not absolutely necessary.

It seems like their strategy is not to directly fire back at Russia militarily but rather to impose costs on them for doing their invasion such as sanctions and asset seizure, to the point where it will hopefully no longer be in Russia's best interests to attack or occupy Ukraine. That avoids a war and saves lives, if it works.

[Nodack]

ALBANIA (2009)
BELGIUM (1949)
BULGARIA (2004)
CANADA (1949)
CROATIA (2009)
CZECH REPUBLIC (1999)
DENMARK (1949)
ESTONIA (2004)
FRANCE (1949)
GERMANY (1955)
GREECE (1952)
HUNGARY (1999)
ICELAND (1949)
ITALY (1949)
LATVIA (2004)
LITHUANIA (2004)
LUXEMBOURG (1949)
MONTENEGRO (2017)
NETHERLANDS (1949)
NORTH MACEDONIA (2020)
NORWAY (1949)
POLAND (1999)
PORTUGAL (1949)
ROMANIA (2004)
SLOVAKIA (2004)
SLOVENIA (2004)
SPAIN (1982)
TURKEY (1952)
THE UNITED KINGDOM (1949)
THE UNITED STATES(1949)


Sending troops to Ukraine to fight would signal the beginning of WWIII. That would signal the possible end of civilization. Biden and NATO are being very careful and I thank them for that. Putin is the one invading and they are trying to stop him without starting WWIII. NATO isn’t just sitting around.


NATO Green Lights Historic Deployment of Troops to ‘Deter’ Putin
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/na ... ar-AAUje26

Blinken says Putin has his sights on countries beyond Ukraine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukr ... expansion/
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said it is obvious Russian President Vladimir Putin has goals beyond Ukraine and may have other countries in his sights.

"You don't need intelligence to tell you that that's exactly what President Putin wants," the top U.S. diplomat said. "He's made clear that he'd like to reconstitute the Soviet empire. Short of that, he'd like to reassert a sphere of influence around neighboring countries that were once part of the Soviet bloc. And short of that, he'd like to make sure that all of these countries are somehow neutral."

"Now, when it comes to a threat beyond Ukraine's borders, there's something very powerful standing in his way," Blinken added. "That's Article 5 of NATO — an attack on one is an attack on all. It's exactly why we've been reinforcing NATO's eastern flank."

The Biden administration has been adamant that it will not send U.S. troops into Ukraine, which is not part of NATO, though it is stationing troops in nearby countries. Instead, the U.S. is arming Ukraine with weapons and has unleashed a series of sanctions against Russia.

China's support for Russia turns Ukraine into battleground for new world order
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... orld-order
China has given “tacit approval” for Russian President Vladimir Putin’s latest invasion of Ukraine, in the judgment of U.S. officials, as part of a joint effort to undermine the institutions that American and allied leaders established to minimize conflict in the decades following World War II.

Ukrainian troops are engaged in fierce fighting with Putin's tanks 20 MILES outside of Kyiv and blow up three bridges to halt their advance after Russian jet was shot down over capital: Zelensky rages at Biden for leaving the country 'alone'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tions.html

We have been left alone to defend our state. Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone.

'Who is ready to give Ukraine a guarantee of NATO membership? Everyone is afraid.'

He added that the enemy has already entered Kyiv and urged residents to be vigilant and observe curfew rules, acknowledging he was 'target number one'.



Russian tank swerves to run over a car.

[In2ition]

Russian tank swerves to run over a car.

Ok, there is a bit disinformation in this. There is a supply truck to the right of the missile launch vehicle(so to the left as you're looking at it) that belonged to the missile launcher that was under fire, where one of the troops on the back of it gets killed. This is happening and the missile launcher is actually swerving to get out of the line of fire. It didn't swerve like that to purposely go after that car. Also, the guy in the car was miraculously ok. There are several other videos of this happening from different angles. Also, there is dispute that this is even Russian, and instead a Ukrainian missile launcher.

[AmareIsGod]

Russian tank swerves to run over a car.

Ok, there is a bit disinformation in this. There is a supply truck to the right of the missile launch vehicle(so to the left as you're looking at it) that belonged to the missile launcher that was under fire, where one of the troops on the back of it gets killed. This is happening and the missile launcher is actually swerving to get out of the line of fire. It didn't swerve like that to purposely go after that car. Also, the guy in the car was miraculously ok. There are several other videos of this happening from different angles. Also, there is dispute that this is even Russian, and instead a Ukrainian missile launcher.

Interesting...

[virtual9mm]

This is Neville Chamberlain all over again.

[Nodack]

Russian tank swerves to run over a car.

Ok, there is a bit disinformation in this. There is a supply truck to the right of the missile launch vehicle(so to the left as you're looking at it) that belonged to the missile launcher that was under fire, where one of the troops on the back of it gets killed. This is happening and the missile launcher is actually swerving to get out of the line of fire. It didn't swerve like that to purposely go after that car. Also, the guy in the car was miraculously ok. There are several other videos of this happening from different angles. Also, there is dispute that this is even Russian, and instead a Ukrainian missile launcher.

You are clearly very informed on this. You know every last detail about the incident. You should post the video of the guys on the ground explaining the facts here so we don’t accidentally think some Russian tank just ran over a car on purpose.

[In2ition]

Russian tank swerves to run over a car.

Ok, there is a bit disinformation in this. There is a supply truck to the right of the missile launch vehicle(so to the left as you're looking at it) that belonged to the missile launcher that was under fire, where one of the troops on the back of it gets killed. This is happening and the missile launcher is actually swerving to get out of the line of fire. It didn't swerve like that to purposely go after that car. Also, the guy in the car was miraculously ok. There are several other videos of this happening from different angles. Also, there is dispute that this is even Russian, and instead a Ukrainian missile launcher.

You are clearly very informed on this. You know every last detail about the incident. You should post the video of the guys on the ground explaining the facts here so we don’t accidentally think some Russian tank just ran over a car on purpose.

Idk if I'm going to be able to find them now. I've been trying to fight the misinformation on twitter, and others have tried posting vids under the tweets, but it's like trying to stop an avalanche by yourself.

[In2ition]

The whole thing is heartbreaking seeing real people get killed, and knowing it's not a movie. It's super heavy on my stress.


This is just one of a number of videos.

[Mori Chu]

Putin doesn't have many allies in this invasion.

[In2ition]

No one see this as a just war.

[Mori Chu]

No one see this as a just war.

Do you still think Putin is a "genius" and "savvy" for invading Ukraine? A few days ago, you defended such talk. Have you changed your mind?

[virtual9mm]

Putin doesn't have many allies in this invasion.

Kazakhstan's also two weeks removed from a civil war of its own in which insurgents were put down using Russian troops.

[virtual9mm]

It's possible (although not a sure thing) that the strength of will of the Ukrainian people just might cover up for Biden's mistake. How would you feel about fighting to defend the ruins of your cities?

[Mori Chu]

It's possible (although not a sure thing) that the strength of will of the Ukrainian people just might cover up for Biden's mistake. How would you feel about fighting to defend the ruins of your cities?

What mistake specifically are you referring to? Do you mean that he has mishandled the Russian invasion of Ukraine? In what way?

[Mori Chu]

[Nodack]

It's possible (although not a sure thing) that the strength of will of the Ukrainian people just might cover up for Biden's mistake. How would you feel about fighting to defend the ruins of your cities?

What mistake specifically are you referring to? Do you mean that he has mishandled the Russian invasion of Ukraine? In what way?

Now that I'm on this thread...why the heck didn't Biden simply put a token American military presence in Kiev? It wouldn't take much, like an airborne battalion. Just a signal to let Putin know that we wouldn't roll over.

Come to think about it, it's the same mistake Joe made in Afghanistan, isn't it.

I don’t see it. Joe was supposed to send an airborne battalion to Afghanistan to help the US troops leave Afghanistan? He did send in some to help secure the airport. There were thousands of people at the airport trying to leave. It was a chaotic scene and ripe for suicide bombers, which actually started to happen. If they stayed longer a lot more people would have died, unless he sent many battalions in to secure the country, it was a losing cause and kind of defeats the purpose of leaving.

Sending real American troops to Kiev would be a seriously dangerous move and an escalation between the two world powers. All of the NATO countries are being very careful to say Ukraine isn’t a NATO country and therefore not under the NATO umbrella. Biden all by himself sending in US troops without any Congressional approval would definitely be used against him. Republicans would have a field day condemning that. Then again it doesn’t matter what the Republicans say. They are going to disapprove of any move Biden makes guaranteed. That move would be seen as provoking war and he would be labeled a war monger. Not sending troops and they label him weak. And then the other half that thinks Putin is in the right and doing a great job attacking Ukraine.

If Biden were to send troops to Ukraine then the Republicans had better have signed off on it first, which they wouldn’t have. Also if Biden were to send in troops it should be a united NATO move, not just a US move, which isn’t going to happen either. Putting the entire response on Biden’s shoulders to act all by himself is asking Biden to be the fall guy. Biden is a little old and slow but, not that slow and old.

[virtual9mm]

The real issue is American credibility, which got shattered in Kurdistan, Afghanistan, and many other places. The US HAD to do something to reassure allies that an American security guarantee meant anything at all. Instead, we just dithered and pretty much posted our thoughts and prayers o Facebook.

What's next? Will the US defend Taiwan against a Chinese invasion? What about South Korea? At which point do American allies start jumping ship onto the Chinese or Russian bandwagons? Although I think that the Koreans are much more likely to go nuclear than pro-China. I've been hearing about this possibility for close to ten years drinking with former Korean diplomats.

And if you think it's ok to lose America's allies, you are forgetting that the international monetary system is intimately tied into American alliances and security guarantees. What happens when the U.S. defaults on debt payments? No more borrowing from overseas? I used to think that the possibility of a USD default was postponed until after Biden left office but I think it's back on the table now. And if you're looking at a default you're looking at an instantaneous 10% contraction in the US economy. In other words, we'll have a Great Depression back home.