Ferguson

[Dan H]

That report is so damning. It sounds like the whole police force was deeply corrupt. Scary to think of living in such a place, or to think that maybe a lot of cities aren't so different.

Rise of the Warrior Cop, Radley Balko. Seriously.

What happened in Ferguson is a symptom of a larger problem, IMO.

[OE32]

That report is so damning. It sounds like the whole police force was deeply corrupt. Scary to think of living in such a place, or to think that maybe a lot of cities aren't so different.

Rise of the Warrior Cop, Radley Balko. Seriously.

What happened in Ferguson is a symptom of a larger problem, IMO.

I'd say there are two problems - corrupt law enforcement seems to be a nationwide issue, and racism.

[Dan H]

Would say it's more classism, IE, police feel they are of a superior class than 'civilians', and tend to come down harder on those without the means to stand up for themselves legally. I'm sure folks in Whitebread USA put up with similar harassment to those in Ferguson.

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/22/i ... lor-blind/

One of the officers threw a flashbang grenade into the room. It landed in Baby Bou Bou’s crib.”

When the grenade exploded, it blew a hole in the toddler’s face and chest, exposing his ribs. The blast covered his body in third degree burns and left him disfigured. The boy’s mother, Alecia Phonesavanh, who is white, told the ACLU, “This is all about race and class. You don’t see SWAT teams going into a white collar community, throwing grenades into their homes.”

Despite costing the family $800,000 for the toddler’s medical bills, officials from Habersham County are now refusing to pay. The cops have defended their actions, with Police Chief Rick Darby claiming that since there was “nothing to indicate that there was children present in the home,” throwing a grenade into someone’s house in the middle of the night was perfectly reasonable.

[OE32]

I find it frustrating when people deny the continuing effect of racism in America. But it's a very complicated topic which I didn't begin to understand until I moved into a black community. I don't have the mental energy to address it on this forum. Let's talk about states rights and Barry Goldwater instead.

[Dan H]

I find it frustrating when people deny the continuing effect of racism in America. But it's a very complicated topic which I didn't begin to understand until I moved into a black community. I don't have the mental energy to address it on this forum. Let's talk about states rights and Barry Goldwater instead.

I don't deny that racism exists, but I do object to it being used as the end-all, be-all for every issue we encounter. I was raised in an ever-more color blind society, to the point that I was shocked when I heard my grandfather use the n-word. If my kids ever hear it won't be from my wife or I, it will probably be from hip-hop.

Close of the article I posted:

This may help explain why police brutality is generally on the rise across the country, and also more specifically why the police in Ferguson are now employing such harsh and draconian means to quell the uprising that has taken hold there. What police despise more than anything is when their authority is challenged, whether it is by whites, blacks, Asians or Latinos. When they feel the need to establish authority is when they lash out, which can be either by throwing you in jail or through excessive force.

[OE32]

I find it frustrating when people deny the continuing effect of racism in America. But it's a very complicated topic which I didn't begin to understand until I moved into a black community. I don't have the mental energy to address it on this forum. Let's talk about states rights and Barry Goldwater instead.

I don't deny that racism exists, but I do object to it being used as the end-all, be-all for every issue we encounter. I was raised in an ever-more color blind society, to the point that I was shocked when I heard my grandfather use the n-word. If my kids ever hear it won't be from my wife or I, it will probably be from hip-hop.

Close of the article I posted:

This may help explain why police brutality is generally on the rise across the country, and also more specifically why the police in Ferguson are now employing such harsh and draconian means to quell the uprising that has taken hold there. What police despise more than anything is when their authority is challenged, whether it is by whites, blacks, Asians or Latinos. When they feel the need to establish authority is when they lash out, which can be either by throwing you in jail or through excessive force.

Not saying it's the end-all, be-all. But in my world, "color-blind" is increasingly used to describe people who don't understand race issues.

This is maybe the best way I can put it. Let's say you judge all people who do X to be doing something bad. Doesn't matter if they're white, black, or green - you look down on people who do X. Everybody has things like this, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Now, you move into a black neighborhood, where absolutely everyone does X. Your dislike of X has nothing to do with race, but now... it's complicated, isn't it?

I go to the laundromat. They have a TV. Every half hour or every hour, they flip the channel around, doing remote gymnastics to land on particular shows. What kind of shows? Shows featuring black people. Their cultural experience is reflected in a small minority of programming, and much of the rest of it would be nearly as different as you and I watching a bunch of sitcoms about English-speaking Indians. We just wouldn't connect.

There are prejudices in both the white and black community. But one of those communities has wealth and power, the other doesn't. I feel a little hated in my community, but it's not like they have jobs to deny me.

None of this is to say that the country is screwed or immoral or that we shouldn't have programs with white people on TV. It's just that if we're going to improve things, we need to be open to discussion about them. That's all.

I'm done for the day. Gotta work. Good talking with you.

[Ghost]

This is maybe the best way I can put it. Let's say you judge all people who do X to be doing something bad. Doesn't matter if they're white, black, or green - you look down on people who do X. Everybody has things like this, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Now, you move into a black neighborhood, where absolutely everyone does X. Your dislike of X has nothing to do with race, but now... it's complicated, isn't it?

I go to the laundromat. They have a TV. Every half hour or every hour, they flip the channel around, doing remote gymnastics to land on particular shows. What kind of shows? Shows featuring black people. Their cultural experience is reflected in a small minority of programming, and much of the rest of it would be nearly as different as you and I watching a bunch of sitcoms about English-speaking Indians. We just wouldn't connect.

There are prejudices in both the white and black community. But one of those communities has wealth and power, the other doesn't. I feel a little hated in my community, but it's not like they have jobs to deny me.

None of this is to say that the country is screwed or immoral or that we shouldn't have programs with white people on TV. It's just that if we're going to improve things, we need to be open to discussion about them. That's all.

I'm done for the day. Gotta work. Good talking with you.

That was exceptionally well spoken.

[OE32]

Thanks for the validation. Being open about race isn't the most comfortable thing. And every time I try to talk about it to people in person, I'm met with silence. White people especially - they just don't talk about race. Which makes me wonder why so many have strong opinions about it. It's okay to just have an open mind.

I actually have a ton more to say about this, most of which will have to wait for another time. But so many white people seem to think that blacks have had a fair shake for the last 50 years. That's just absurd. Such opinions are largely, I think, the result of an unwillingness to actually talk about race. Our current politics is infused with race issues, but most people either aren't aware or won't acknowledge it. And when people say things like "reverse racism," you know you're in a conversation with someone who lacks perspective. There, that's my piece for the day.

[Indy]

Thanks for the validation. Being open about race isn't the most comfortable thing. And every time I try to talk about it to people in person, I'm met with silence. White people especially - they just don't talk about race. Which makes me wonder why so many have strong opinions about it. It's okay to just have an open mind.

I actually have a ton more to say about this, most of which will have to wait for another time. But so many white people seem to think that blacks have had a fair shake for the last 50 years. That's just absurd. Such opinions are largely, I think, the result of an unwillingness to actually talk about race. Our current politics is infused with race issues, but most people either aren't aware or won't acknowledge it. And when people say things like "reverse racism," you know you're in a conversation with someone who lacks perspective. There, that's my piece for the day.

I will have to second Andy's comment. And I couldn't agree more about the "color-blind" comment. Growing up in a poor neighborhood, I lived in a housing complex for most of my youth with a very wide range of races and much more black people than average in the US, much less Arizona. People who pretend there isn't a huge difference in how this country deals with both cultures are kidding themselves. This country is extremely biased in so many ways against blacks. I can't see that changing in my lifetime. It is depressing.

[Dan H]

Thanks for the validation. Being open about race isn't the most comfortable thing. And every time I try to talk about it to people in person, I'm met with silence. White people especially - they just don't talk about race. Which makes me wonder why so many have strong opinions about it. It's okay to just have an open mind.

I actually have a ton more to say about this, most of which will have to wait for another time. But so many white people seem to think that blacks have had a fair shake for the last 50 years. That's just absurd. Such opinions are largely, I think, the result of an unwillingness to actually talk about race. Our current politics is infused with race issues, but most people either aren't aware or won't acknowledge it. And when people say things like "reverse racism," you know you're in a conversation with someone who lacks perspective. There, that's my piece for the day.

I don't mind talking about it, I just don't like it when words or sentiments are put in my mouth. Have blacks had a fair shake for the last 50 years? No, not always. But I can't control that, I can only control how I live my own life and how I raise my children. And I'm raising them to look at people as people. Maybe in 20-25 years no one will care.

[Nodack]

I can say that in my lifetime there has definitely been a lot of progress made on a lot of fronts. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it and it certainly isn't perfect. Two steps forward, one step back. Race, religion, politics. People fear what they don't understand. Fear turns to distrust/hate. People aren't nice to people they don't understand, fear, don't trust and hate.

I think the police have gotten more militarized over the past decade. I think a lot of the police forces are made up of ex military that have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even their hardware is hand me downs from the military. I think there is a different mentality than there previously was.

White people especially - they just don't talk about race. Which makes me wonder why so many have strong opinions about it. It's okay to just have an open mind.

White people don't feel comfortable talking about race relations with a black person. They can feel real comfortable talking about it with another white person that feels the same way they do. Most people don't like confrontations and probably feel like only bad things can come from that conversation and avoid it, especially with people you don't know well.

I voted for Obama twice and feel good about my vote. I played as a musician at a Golf Country Club in the resturaunt lounge doing a solo steady. I heard lots of conversations all the time by the members bagging on Obama and blacks. I wanted to engage them, but I wanted to keep my job even more and just kept quiet. If a black member were to walk in I'm sure they would have greeted him warmly and immediately stopped talking about what they were talking about. That never happened though because there were no black members that I saw in the several years I played there. I never even thought about it before now.

My wife has a married friend where she works and we get together every once in awhile for things. Her husband is nice and we all get along. Him and I are co-leaders of an online video game. One night we were talking and politics came up and it became clear that were were on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I told him that maybe it's a good idea that he and I don't ever discuss politics and we haven't since.

All that was in response to you asking why white people don't talk about race OE32. People in general avoid talking about sensitive subjects when they know the person they are talking to might have a different view or be sensitive to the subject. We talk more openly here because this is faceless and we have made up names on the Internet.

[OE32]

Thanks for that, 'Dack. Good stuff.

[OE32]

A little something for all you states rights and low taxes lovers out there.

[youtube][/youtube]

[SDC]

She might literally be killed or beaten if her name is leaked. I do not think that is a desirable outcome. They should punish her if she lied, but not by letting mob justice ruin her.

OT: so this celebrated Rolling Stone article by sabrina ederly on UVA campus rape is a hoax,

https://archive.today/m23To

should rolling stone at least identify "jackie" to the public now that it's clear that she is not a rape victim?

[Ghost]

She might literally be killed or beaten if her name is leaked. I do not think that is a desirable outcome. They should punish her if she lied, but not by letting mob justice ruin her.

OT: so this celebrated Rolling Stone article by sabrina ederly on UVA campus rape is a hoax,

https://archive.today/m23To

should rolling stone at least identify "jackie" to the public now that it's clear that she is not a rape victim?

To what end? What purpose would that serve?

[SDC]

She might literally be killed or beaten if her name is leaked. I do not think that is a desirable outcome. They should punish her if she lied, but not by letting mob justice ruin her.

OT: so this celebrated Rolling Stone article by sabrina ederly on UVA campus rape is a hoax,

https://archive.today/m23To

should rolling stone at least identify "jackie" to the public now that it's clear that she is not a rape victim?

To what end? What purpose would that serve?

to give her other potential victims a good chance at avoiding her?

i dont see the point of keeping her name secret anymore. it's in the interest of everybody else that she be exposed now that it is revealed to be a hoax.

[Ghost]

She might literally be killed or beaten if her name is leaked. I do not think that is a desirable outcome. They should punish her if she lied, but not by letting mob justice ruin her.

OT: so this celebrated Rolling Stone article by sabrina ederly on UVA campus rape is a hoax,

https://archive.today/m23To

should rolling stone at least identify "jackie" to the public now that it's clear that she is not a rape victim?

To what end? What purpose would that serve?

to give her other potential victims a good chance at avoiding her?

i dont see the point of keeping her name secret anymore. it's in the interest of everybody else that she be exposed now that it is revealed to be a hoax.

What interest is served by revealing her name? If she lied, she should be prosecuted. I don't see where publicly shaming her helps her or real rape victims. Why do you want to know her name?

[SDC]

She might literally be killed or beaten if her name is leaked. I do not think that is a desirable outcome. They should punish her if she lied, but not by letting mob justice ruin her.

OT: so this celebrated Rolling Stone article by sabrina ederly on UVA campus rape is a hoax,

https://archive.today/m23To

should rolling stone at least identify "jackie" to the public now that it's clear that she is not a rape victim?

To what end? What purpose would that serve?

to give her other potential victims a good chance at avoiding her?

i dont see the point of keeping her name secret anymore. it's in the interest of everybody else that she be exposed now that it is revealed to be a hoax.

What interest is served by revealing her name? If she lied, she should be prosecuted. I don't see where publicly shaming her helps her or real rape victims. Why do you want to know her name?

how would we know if she gets that if we dont know her identity? think man.

[Mori Chu]

Mob justice is bad.

[SDC]

Mob justice is bad.

and i'm not even advocating for mob justice... just "justice".