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SDC wrote:here's what The San Diego Gay and Lesbian News thinks of christianity, but they are in for a nasty surprise...

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... of-crisis/

The article you posted is so full of nonsense...but who the hell cares? What, as a male, white, Christian are you afraid of being a minority? Are minorities treated as second class citizens or something?

SDC wrote:

Shabazz wrote:What does Christian doctrine have to do with a country that separates church and state allowing gay marriage?

why does the state and the democrat mob want to impose/coerce it's secular beliefs on peaceful, law abiding citizens of faith when all they want is to not participate in religioius activities/ceremonies they dont believe in?

that answer your q?

They aren't participating, though. Any more than the gas station providing gas to let them get to the church is participating.

Also, if they are violating the 14th Amendment, they are not law abiding. In fact, if I were to go totally nuts, I could argue you're a traitor if you violate the Constitution, but I won't actually do that.

The government was designed to be secular. It should be. It must be.

Ghost wrote:

SDC wrote:here's what The San Diego Gay and Lesbian News thinks of christianity, but they are in for a nasty surprise...

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... of-crisis/

The article you posted is so full of nonsense...but who the hell cares? What, as a male, white, Christian are you afraid of being a minority? Are minorities treated as second class citizens or something?

i already have minority status.

SDC wrote:

Ghost wrote:

SDC wrote:here's what The San Diego Gay and Lesbian News thinks of christianity, but they are in for a nasty surprise...

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... of-crisis/

The article you posted is so full of nonsense...but who the hell cares? What, as a male, white, Christian are you afraid of being a minority? Are minorities treated as second class citizens or something?

i already have minority status.

Well, bully for you, then!

OK, then I will edit my question. As a privileged guy who acts like a complete jackass online, are you afraid of being even more marginalized than you already may be?

You could have answered this question in context even without the last post...it wasn't a trick question.

Ghost wrote:

SDC wrote:here's what The San Diego Gay and Lesbian News thinks of christianity, but they are in for a nasty surprise...

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... of-crisis/

The article you posted is so full of nonsense...but who the hell cares? What, as a male, white, Christian are you afraid of being a minority? Are minorities treated as second class citizens or something?

did you even read the article? based on your history of lying and baseless opinions, i bet not...

http://www.phx-suns.net/viewtopic.php?p=35965#p35965

or you didnt understand the article, like always...

Ghost wrote:

SDC wrote:

Shabazz wrote:What does Christian doctrine have to do with a country that separates church and state allowing gay marriage?

why does the state and the democrat mob want to impose/coerce it's secular beliefs on peaceful, law abiding citizens of faith when all they want is to not participate in religioius activities/ceremonies they dont believe in?

that answer your q?

They aren't participating, though. Any more than the gas station providing gas to let them get to the church is participating.

actually, they are participating in something that is against their faith.

I read it, and replied. Did you read it?

SDC wrote:actually, they are participating in something that is against their faith.

Nope. They are just making a cake. That is not a political statement. It's just a dessert. It doesn't make any statement, any more than providing gas for the limo is a statement. It's a cake.

Ghost wrote:I read it, and replied. Did you read it?

okay, then quote me which part you are responding to. because i dont get your response to the article, frankly... makes me think you are a LIAR, just like last time when i posted the NYT arcticle on ferguson.

Ghost wrote:

SDC wrote:actually, they are participating in something that is against their faith.

Nope. They are just making a cake. That is not a political statement. It's just a dessert. It doesn't make any statement, any more than providing gas for the limo is a statement. It's a cake.

it's not just a cake, it's a wedding cake for a same sex couple.

I am actually somewhat on the fence as far as the whole cake issue. It could be argued that providing a cake isn't necessarily participating in the ceremony, which is where I think most of the hang up would be for me, personally.

It's a fine distinction, but I think there is a difference between providing a product to a customer at a retail storefront and actively going out to assist in a ceremony or reception.

The mute button is a terrible thing to waste, guys.

Dan H wrote:I am actually somewhat on the fence as far as the whole cake issue. It could be argued that providing a cake isn't necessarily participating in the ceremony, which is where I think most of the hang up would be for me, personally.

It's a fine distinction, but I think there is a difference between providing a product to a customer at a retail storefront and actively going out to assist in a ceremony or reception.

Do you think selling someone a cake is different than selling someone streamers, or shoes, or as Andy said, gas to get where they are going?

To some extent I suppose it is if it's customized because there is a sense of art inherent to cake decoration. If we're talking about pulling a cake out of the case and slapping a topper on it, no, it would be just the same as shoes and streamers.

For example, I think the baker in this case made a reasonable offer:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/lo ... i-gay-cake

Marjorie Silva, the owner of the bakery, told Jack that she would make him the bible-shaped cakes, but would not decorate them with the biblical verses and the image of the groomsmen that he requested. Instead, she offered to provide him with icing and a pastry bag so he could write or draw whatever messages he wished on the cakes.

The actual 'art' of the decoration wasn't done but the actual product was still offered along with a reasonable compromise on the inflammatory message.

Dan H wrote:To some extent I suppose it is if it's customized because there is a sense of art inherent to cake decoration. If we're talking about pulling a cake out of the case and slapping a topper on it, no, it would be just the same as shoes and streamers.

For example, I think the baker in this case made a reasonable offer:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/lo ... i-gay-cake

Marjorie Silva, the owner of the bakery, told Jack that she would make him the bible-shaped cakes, but would not decorate them with the biblical verses and the image of the groomsmen that he requested. Instead, she offered to provide him with icing and a pastry bag so he could write or draw whatever messages he wished on the cakes.

The actual 'art' of the decoration wasn't done but the actual product was still offered along with a reasonable compromise on the inflammatory message.

I have someone in my family that makes cakes and cupcakes as a (very) small business. Typically, you have a bunch of pictures of everything you have made/sold, and people pick what they want from that portfolio. I can't see a good reason for not making that same cake for a different person, just because you disagree with that person.

I know we seem to be stuck on cakes for some ridiculous reason, but I haven't seen anyone arguing that cake shops should have to write "I, mr. cake shop owner, am in support of equal rights for everyone" on their cakes. They can be as bigoted as they want to be, as long as they are not being discriminatory.

Typically, you have a bunch of pictures of everything you have made/sold, and people pick what they want from that portfolio. I can't see a good reason for not making that same cake for a different person, just because you disagree with that person.

I agree. When you get into custom work I think it becomes a different issue.

Dan H wrote:Typically, you have a bunch of pictures of everything you have made/sold, and people pick what they want from that portfolio. I can't see a good reason for not making that same cake for a different person, just because you disagree with that person.

I agree. When you get into custom work I think it becomes a different issue.

This is taking it a bit far, but isn't every meal (that isn't at a fast food/national chains) a work of art? I don't think it is easy to draw the line...

I think you're still cooking to a recipe. The quality of the cooking and ingredients may vary but it's still a script.

Next you guys will be talking about what color of food coloring is being used on said cupcakes.

It all boils down to one group wishing to make a law allowing them to discriminate against one group of people that they don't approve of.

You can certainly make that argument, but what's your position as an artist?

If someone hired you for a wedding, is there any sort of hypothetical limit on your expression that you'd be unwilling to accept in exchange for pay? Set list approval, etc.?