Running Mates

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Ghost
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Ghost »

Indy wrote:
Ghost wrote:No, not with people who already support Trump. And by that I mean that I can't imagine Trump doing anything to convince people who aren't already going to vote for him to vote for him.

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Do you think he picks up all of Cruz's primary votes?
Not all of them, but a significant number. The truly die-hard religious might be scared off by Trump because he just doesn't speak their language. So yes, he will gain some votes based on party lines, but I don't see Trump being able to find a running mate who will bring anyone new onto his side. Palin appealed to the Tea Party where McCain did not (although they still would have likely voted for him). Trump already has the lunatic fringe in his pocket; that will scare off many moderate Republicans and Independents and there is nobody he can put on his ticket who will bring them around. But yes, he gains a lot of votes with Cruz out. But, most people vote on party lines anyway, so that is to be expected.

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Indy
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Indy »

Check out the video of Cruz punching his wife in the face as he drops out.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

Trump is a madman and must be stopped. I think Hillary will beat him in a landslide in the general election. Trump has insulted too many people in the electorate (women, Muslims, Mexicans, etc) and these people vote. And a desire to stop him will drive high Dem voter turnout. He will do embarrassingly poorly in the general election.

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Cap
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Cap »

Your lips to God's ears.

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Indy
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Indy »

I really hope that is true. Most maps tell you that it would be very, very difficult for him to win. But it was also nearly impossible for him to be the nominee 12 months ago.

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Superbone
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Superbone »

I really hope you are right, Mori. That's my thinking as well. It still scares me though that he has a chance. A landslide loss for him would make me feel much better about our country.
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Indy
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Indy »

The only positive I can take away from all of this is, maybe Congress will take the cue that this country is sick of the huge war between the two political parties. There was an article somewhere (WSJ maybe) that pointed to the correspondents dinner. Obama and Boehner were so chummy with each other the whole night. And the reporter asked where this has been the last 7 years as our country has come to a stand still.

There are too many bad things about Trump running to post here. But, the only good thing about Trump running is that it sends a message to the GOP that the people in this country that call themselves Republicans, didn't like a single candidate that the GOP could throw at them. Now, if Clinton wins in a landslide, it might just teach the GOP that, "see, this was all a stunt, and we can't let outsiders screw us up again. We need to double-down on what we were doing!". That would be really scary, too.

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Nodack
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Nodack »

I think the GOP has been crazy stupid the past decade or so. They are so wrapped up in their war against Obama, Hillary and Democrats that they have abandoned any sense of governing for the people and have spent all of their time fighting the war. They have gotten nothing done and are proud of it. Half the Republican Party is mad as hell because their party didn't obstruct Democrats enough for their tastes and call those that were even slightly moderate RHINOs. They hate the US government and want to shut down half of it for starters. Those people are voting for Trump.

I think there are different people voting for Trump for different reasons but, most I believe are voting for Trump because he isn't a normal Washington Politician. Washington has lost its credibility. Congress's approval rating is something like 12%. Bernie has been popular as well because he wants to shake things up. I think people on both sides of the isle are fed up with Washington's inability to get anything done because of partisan fighting and are willing to vote for a guy like Trump just because he isn't a Washington politician and are willing to overlook the stupid things he says if it means real change. They believe what he is selling. I think the are gong to be regretting their vote in about a year if he is elected. I don't think he is nearly as Conservative as they think. He said all the right things to get their vote but, I don't think he will honor anything he said once elected. I actually believe he won't be nearly as caustic as he has been if elected but, then again nobody seems to really know what he is thinking from minute to minute. I don't think he will win. He insulted everybody and now he wants their vote?

I kind of liked Hillary from the things I have read earlier on. I read Defense Secretary Gates book and he had high praise for Hillary. As the election has progressed I have started to like Hillary less and less. The Benghazi thing has had no effect on my opinion of Hillary but, has made me despise the GOP even more. The email thing bothers me slightly but, not very much. Her cozying up to big donors and making a crap load of money off of paid speeches to corporate sponsors bugs me. It makes her look bought and sold by the highest bidder. I think she is telling the truth when she says she will work with everybody. Maybe she is right for the job because she really knows how Washington works and can work the system to her advantage. On the other hand, her knowing the system so well makes her just another politician. Washington is broken and she is part of the same ole same ole.

I'm glad Trump is the GOP nominee. I think they deserve him. I wish Bernie had beat out Hillary but, I believe he gave her a real scare and she should be thinking real hard what that means. She needs Bernies supporters to vote for her. Hillary and Bernie went at each other pretty hard and she made Bernie supporters angry. She will have to do something to win their support back.

I have lost a lot of faith in our political system the past decade or so. Bernie and Trump doing as well as they have shows me that I am not alone. Washington should be noticing that America has served them notice but, I think the are too stupid to take the hint. We shall see.

Ghost
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Ghost »

The GOP is dead after this election. Their party is so broken that they just nominated a dude who is only BARELY a conservative. Even if, somehow, they won the general election, they don't even support him. What a catastrophic failure on their part.

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Cap
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Cap »

Ghost wrote:The GOP is dead after this election.
But wishful thinking is not.

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LazarusLong
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Re: Running Mates

Post by LazarusLong »

Ghost wrote:The GOP is dead after this election. Their party is so broken that they just nominated a dude who is only BARELY a conservative. Even if, somehow, they won the general election, they don't even support him. What a catastrophic failure on their part.

I've seen several versions of this movie before, and the corpse usually revives, albeit in a different form.

In '64, the western wing of the GOP, combined with an early form of libertarianism, bulldozed the old eastern/Taft wing of the GOP and made Goldwater its candidate.
Goldwater got creamed by the ghost of Kennedy and the ethereal visions of Camelot. Was the GOP dead?

GOP won in '68 when the Democratic Party fragmented and Nixon pulled together a coalition of the disaffected South, the new West and some of the old GOP warhorses from yesteryear.
He then steamrolled McGovern and the alleged rainbow coalition in'72, which supposedly was the death of the Democratic Party. Moderate Democrats either voted Nixon or didn't vote.

Watergate and a populist outsider, Jimmy Carter, gave the Democrats a victory in '76, breathing some semblance of life back into the party.
Even though Carter bought the farm in '80, another populist (and Southern governor), Clinton, would come to power for the Democrats in '92.

Yeah, the GOP is taking on a lot of water now, but don't be surprised if somebody raises the Titanic in four years ...
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

Ghost
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Ghost »

I see what you are saying, and I'm not heralding the death of conservatism. In fact, I feel that conservatism has always and will always have an important role to play, though I personally don't usually agree.

But literally, the Republican party is dying. Not just the party, but the members. And in four years, after the Trump schism takes its toll, I don't know how they recover. As a party, not as conservatives. Trump, obviously, isn't even a conservative, but he's their rep now. Because the party itself is irrevocably broken, and while they may reform in a new way (thank god), the modern Republican party is dead.

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LazarusLong
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Re: Running Mates

Post by LazarusLong »

Good points, all.

The problem with "conservative" is the political definition has become too fraught with inconsistencies.

For example, the right-to-life folks will argue that all life is precious, but then support the death penalty. Oops.

Also, conservative has, for many, come to mean anything anti-Obama.
It's not a philosophy, it's a visceral reaction.

The larger problem is Americans like things black and white, good and bad. Life is rarely that clear-cut; it's varying shades of the existential pallet.
But most people are too lazy intellectually to think through conundra.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

Ghost
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Ghost »

I agree with all of that. I use the term in the classical sense, which mostly doesn't exist in reality right now.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

The Economist has a scathing article about how much they dislike Trump. I love it.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... rible-news

I don't want our Politics area to become a liberal echo chamber, but I really think it's not about bashing everything Republican here. It's that Trump is dangerous and unqualified to be President. He must be stopped.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

LazarusLong wrote:
Ghost wrote:The GOP is dead after this election. Their party is so broken that they just nominated a dude who is only BARELY a conservative. Even if, somehow, they won the general election, they don't even support him. What a catastrophic failure on their part.

I've seen several versions of this movie before, and the corpse usually revives, albeit in a different form.

In '64, the western wing of the GOP, combined with an early form of libertarianism, bulldozed the old eastern/Taft wing of the GOP and made Goldwater its candidate.
Goldwater got creamed by the ghost of Kennedy and the ethereal visions of Camelot. Was the GOP dead?

GOP won in '68 when the Democratic Party fragmented and Nixon pulled together a coalition of the disaffected South, the new West and some of the old GOP warhorses from yesteryear.
He then steamrolled McGovern and the alleged rainbow coalition in'72, which supposedly was the death of the Democratic Party. Moderate Democrats either voted Nixon or didn't vote.

Watergate and a populist outsider, Jimmy Carter, gave the Democrats a victory in '76, breathing some semblance of life back into the party.
Even though Carter bought the farm in '80, another populist (and Southern governor), Clinton, would come to power for the Democrats in '92.

Yeah, the GOP is taking on a lot of water now, but don't be surprised if somebody raises the Titanic in four years ...
Thanks for this context, Laz. You have a wealth of information.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

Ghost wrote:The GOP is dead after this election. Their party is so broken that they just nominated a dude who is only BARELY a conservative. Even if, somehow, they won the general election, they don't even support him. What a catastrophic failure on their part.
I don't think anything about the party will be "dead" after Trump's likely loss in November. They will likely decide that he lost because he wasn't a "true" Republican, didn't truly espouse the party's beliefs, wasn't picked and groomed by the party establishment. We'll get Paul Ryan as their candidate in 2020 running against the incumbent Hillary, and he'll probably be more representative to them.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

BTW, I have been listening to this podcast, "Keepin' it 1600," on Soundcloud (also on iTunes etc.). It's part of Bill Simmons' "The Ringer" network of podcasts. The hosts are two guys who worked on Obama's campaign in 2008. They're admittedly talking about everything from a Democrat's point of view, and not especially trying to be impartial. But they give their take on each week in politics and have interesting guests on from politics and media.

In a recent episode they talked about how the media likes to make every election sound like it's neck-and-neck, partly to drive interest and ratings in their election coverage. They said that Obama/Romney was neck and neck, and then Obama won by a large margin. The hosts think that will happen again here, where people will cherry-pick polls that show Trump as being close to Hillary or gaining on her, but that most likely on Election Day the votes will come in strongly in Hillary's favor.

Here's the link to their podcast feed:

https://soundcloud.com/keepinit1600

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Nodack
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Nodack »

I think the Republican party is seriously messed up right now but, I don't think that they are going anywhere. Like Laz said, people see things in black and white. You are either a conservative or a liberal in most circles and there is no room for the middle. I comsider myself proudly dead center in the middle and that is so uncool. I don't care. The middle is where we should all be. Those that appose Liberal/Progressives will stay in that camp. Right now they just know they hate Liberals and Washington and want somebody to fight the fight. Regardless of who wins those people will still hate Liberals probably for the rest of their lives. They aren't going to just start voting Democrat because their party is a cluster F. They will just get angrier and angrier when things don't go as they want and I'm good with that.

As a moderate/anti-republican I can live with the way things are working out. America is flexing its muscles and sending Washington a message. I hope somebody is getting the message. I wanted Bernie more than Hillary and not because I want a communist country but, because I think he is on the average Americans side and sees all the manipulation in Washington and wants to do something about it. Hillary sees it too and wants to work within that broken system to maybe sort of help the average American. It will be the same old with her IMO. Trump is a big ?. Not even Trump has any clue to what he is about or will do. All those people putting their faith in him are going to be seriously let down if he wins IMO. I see no way he wins but, nothing is set in stone. What if Hillary wins the nomination and then the FBI sends her to jail?

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Mori Chu
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Re: Running Mates

Post by Mori Chu »

What do you guys think about this stuff with the shady dealings in the Nevada Democratic primaries? It sounds like pro-Bernie delegates/voters were possibly ignored or silenced.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... count.html

http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Demo ... 28701.html

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