Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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Mori Chu
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Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

Post by Mori Chu »

This one seems to be still developing. Bunch of emails leaked showing Hillary working with the Democratic party leadership to try to smear Bernie Sanders and assure Clinton of the nomination. Looks like some media outlets were also involved. Looks pretty damning at first glance, in the sense that the primary is meant to reflect the will of the people, not machinations of the party leadership. Thoughts?

http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-p ... democracy/

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Cap
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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You have to fill in a lot of details with your imagination to get that story to amount to anything damning.

Is there anything specific in there that amounts to misconduct by the DNC? All we have reported here is that some Clinton supporters swapped ideas about how to best advocate for their preferred candidate. The fact that these people were DNC members, or they discussed such matters over DNC email, doesn't amount to the DNC rigging the primary against Sanders.

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carey
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Re: RE: Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

Post by carey »

Cap wrote:You have to fill in a lot of details with your imagination to get that story to amount to anything damning.

Is there anything specific in there that amounts to misconduct by the DNC? All we have reported here is that some Clinton supporters swapped ideas about how to best advocate for their preferred candidate. The fact that these people were DNC members, or they discussed such matters over DNC email, doesn't amount to the DNC rigging the primary against Sanders.
The fact that DNC members were looking for ways to discredit Sanders including questioning his faith and purposely leaking that his campaign was a mess seems to be at the very least misconduct. No?
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Cap
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Re: RE: Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

Post by Cap »

carey wrote:
Cap wrote:You have to fill in a lot of details with your imagination to get that story to amount to anything damning.

Is there anything specific in there that amounts to misconduct by the DNC? All we have reported here is that some Clinton supporters swapped ideas about how to best advocate for their preferred candidate. The fact that these people were DNC members, or they discussed such matters over DNC email, doesn't amount to the DNC rigging the primary against Sanders.
The fact that DNC members were looking for ways to discredit Sanders including questioning his faith and purposely leaking that his campaign was a mess seems to be at the very least misconduct. No?
No. Did the DNC ever actually issue statements attacking Sanders over his religion? Do you know for a fact that anyone planned any such thing? All we know is that some people talked over DNC email over whether that might be an effective message to use against him. People are allowed to have such discussions, even if they're members of the DNC.

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ShelC
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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I think if you read the articles and emails, it's pretty much right there that they were pushing for Hillary internally and working against Sanders. The DNC Chair, Debbie Wassserman Schultz, is being pressured to step down and Sanders can now say "I told you so". Trump's even jumping in on the action (no surprise there). What I can't speak to, is whether it's really "misconduct". That's kind of the game being played in politics, right? The DNC has to promote the candidate that will win and Bernie was a major thorn in their side. Yea, ideally you'd hope that the DNC would promote all candidates equally and allow the people to really pick their candidate, but that's not happening. Conversely, do we think there aren't emails from the RNC side with staff coming up with ways to stop Trumo? What's funny now is that the Dems are pretty much like "Whatever, we have to move on and unify".

I think a larger issue needing to be talked about is that the emails are the ones that were stolen, among many more sensitive emails, by Russian hackers a few months ago. We need to starting taking cybersecurity more seriously here.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-el ... rs-n596701

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ins-hands/

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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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Wasserman Shulz resigned from the DNC: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/deb ... n=politics
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Cap
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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Well, the articles I've read haven't described any concrete actions that unfairly impacted Sander's chances to win. They do reveal that the people at the DNC wanted Hillary to win. That in and of itself is no surprise and no sin.

If I'm missing something, let me know. Did they actually do anything that undermined the democratic nature of the contest?


Meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle, we have people being explicitly threatened with retaliation for not supporting Trump...

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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

Post by carey »

Cap wrote:Well, the articles I've read haven't described any concrete actions that unfairly impacted Sander's chances to win. They do reveal that the people at the DNC wanted Hillary to win. That in and of itself is no surprise and no sin.

If I'm missing something, let me know. Did they actually do anything that undermined the democratic nature of the contest?


Meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle, we have people being explicitly threatened with retaliation for not supporting Trump...
I imagine if there was no impropriety then she has nothing to worry about from this class action lawsuit filed yesterday: http://observer.com/2016/06/debbie-wass ... primaries/
“There are essentially six legal claims we are asserting in this lawsuit on behalf of the composed class members,” said attorney Jared Beck in a YouTube video announcing the lawsuit. “The first is a claim for fraud—against the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz—based on the revelations from the recent Guccifer 2.0 documents purportedly taken from the DNC’s own computer network.”
The second claim filed is for negligent misrepresentation, a legal theory based on the first claim of fraud. The third claim alleges the DNC and Wasserman Schultz participated in deceptive conduct in claiming the DNC was neutral during the Democratic primaries, when there is overwhelming evidence suggesting favoritism of Clinton from the beginning. The fourth claim of the lawsuit seeks retribution of any monetary donations the DNC to Bernie Sanders‘ campaign. The fifth claim alleges the DNC broke its fiduciary duties during the Democratic primaries to members of the Democratic Party by not holding a fair election process. The sixth claim is for negligence on behalf of the DNC—for not protecting donor information—as hackers broke into the DNC networks, potentially compromising their personal information.
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Cap
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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My question still stands, as nobody has attempted to answer it: What actual deeds were committed that compromised the fairness of the election?

As for the existence of a class action lawsuit, that means nothing. You can file a lawsuit for anything. Larry Klayman just filed one on behalf of all White Americans against Obama for instigating a race war.
The third claim alleges the DNC and Wasserman Schultzparticipated in deceptive conduct in claiming the DNC was neutral during the Democratic primaries, when there is overwhelming evidence suggesting favoritism of Clinton from the beginning
Where is the fraud? The fact that most DNC members strongly preferred Clinton was never a secret. That fact in and of itself doesn't mean the DNC wasn't neutral in the manner in which it discharged its duties.

The one specific charge I have seen is that somebody wanted to make an issue of Sanders's religious views. If the DNC, which is required to be neutral, had actually made an issue of Sanders's religious views in order to undermine him, that would have been a wrongful act. But if nothing came of it, then the mere fact that somebody made the inappropriate suggestion in a (presumed to be) private conversation doesn't amount to a tort.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

Post by Mori Chu »

Cap: There are other emails where they are talking about falsely "anonymously" leaking stories discrediting Bernie and covering up the fact that it came from them. There are also email threads between DNC people and media personalities at CNN, MSNBC, and other outlets where the DNC people are sending anti-Bernie coverage stuff to the media people and telling them when/how to report it, and the media people happily confirm that they'll do so. So this runs deep and seems to involve collusion with some parts of the mainstream media.

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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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I was thinking that the timing was so perfect that somebody wanted to create a firestorm and I suspected it was fabricated. Then nobody from the DNC denied it. Then Wassermsn stepped down. Now the DNC just apologized to Sanders for the emails. That is pretty much a smoking gun IMO.

Bernie was right, they were conspiring to get rid of him. Not much different than what the GOP tried to do to Trump except they did it right out in the open while the DNC did it secretly behind closed doors.

I thought Bernie should give up his candidacy when it was clear Hillary was going to win. Now I think some heads need to roll and there should be some sort of protest. I will have to think about it some. Liking Hillary less and less but, she still isn't a Republican and Trump is still a complete bafoon.

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ShelC
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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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The Russians wanted to create the firestorm. They've been sitting on these for a while. The question became: Do they release the emails before the election to hurt Hillary and help Trump (which benefits them). Or, do they save the emails (and not just these but others) if Hillary wins the Presidency and use them against her for diplomatic leverage (blackmail). I guess they like their chances better in the world with Trump as Prez.

But this still brings us to the issue of Russia...they've become a lot more aggressive in the last 2-3 years towards us with fly-bys, provocations and bombings of military installations. They keep pushing the line further and further with no response from us.

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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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I do see Russia upping the rhetoric along with China to an extent. I wouldn't say there is no response. We initiated sanctions against Russia and stepped up our military presence around China in support of our allies, not to mention Obama visited all those countries discussing security.

Russia relies on oil in a big way. Oil was way up, Russia started making money again and started rebuilding their military. Putin became very aggressive. Then oil fell like a rock. We started sanctions against them. Now Russia has a lot more problems than the US does. Their economy is on the ropes and people are struggling. Putin rattles his sabre to keep his people United against us instead of against him. I'm not that worried about Russia. They have been doing fly-by's since before I was born and will long after I'm dead probably.

I'm not sure what Russia has to gain by Trump as President. I think Putin hates America and Hillary like he is supposed to. Trump said nice things about Putin and maybe it's as simple as Putin getting a little revenge.

Edit:
http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... on-experts

There are several reasons why it’s plausible Russian President Vladimir Putin would want a Trump victory, experts say.

The Russian leader has a notoriously icy relationship with the sitting Democratic president — tension that was on display in their repeated clashes over the two countries’ opposing positions in the Syrian civil war.

Trump, meanwhile, has advanced an “America First” platform that appears to include drawing back U.S. military activity abroad.

The Republican standard-bearer hinted last week that he might refuse help to some NATO allies should they be attacked by Russia. The statement sent shockwaves through the foreign policy community, as the alliance has long served as a powerful check on Russian aggression.

“Donald Trump in the White House would provide enormous opportunities for Russia to increase their influence in the world,” Borg said.

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Re: Wikileaks publishes 20k emails showing Clinton/DNC/media collusion

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The Republican standard-bearer hinted last week that he might refuse help to some NATO allies should they be attacked by Russia. The statement sent shockwaves through the foreign policy community, as the alliance has long served as a powerful check on Russian aggression.
That is exactly the reason. Putin wants to invade and take over the Baltic states again. And it seems Trump wouldn't put up a fight if he did. So of course he will spend hundreds of millions to try and help Trump win.

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