Democratic National Convention

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Mori Chu
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Democratic National Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

Y'all been watching it? Thoughts so far?

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

I thought Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Warren did a great job on Monday. I missed most of the coverage on Tuesday; haven't had a chance to watch Bill Clinton's speech on Tuesday or hear how it went. I do think the overall feel and message of the convention are much, MUCH more positive and less about doom and gloom and hatred than the previous convention, which is most welcome.

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O_Gardino
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by O_Gardino »

Sanders was their doom and gloom guy, and he has been pretty well silenced.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

I thought Obama gave a great speech Wednesday night. A little long-ish, but he's such a powerful public speaker. Biden's speech was also mostly good, though a bit less memorable. Overall I think the DNC has been waaaaaaaay more successful than the RNC was, though I guess we're all biased.

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ShelC
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by ShelC »

Obama's great at giving speeches. He's proven that much. 8 years of speeches. And condemnation. And more speeches. And more condemnation.

For all the talk about needing to unify the GOP, I feel like the Dems are very fractured just the same. Whereas the GOP was divided due to an outsider (Trump), the DNC has been done in by its own, and is now trying to pretend things are rosy. But the irony and hypocrisy with the Dems is that they're calling out Trump and the GOP for dividing the country, wanting to put up walls,etc and then put fences up to keep the Bernie protesters out and shut them up, have BLM and other organizers segregating crowds ( and essentially tried rigging the very system they claim to be trying to uphold and keep out of the hands of a guy like Trump. And Bernie of all people rolled over and pulled the rug out from his supporters. Even Sarah Silverman, who was an ardent supporter of his throughout the campaign, not only went along with it but had the gall to talk down to his supporters, saying they were being "ridiculous" while she was speaking on stage.

I also feel like there's an extreme level of exploitation of minorities, simply to garner favor and get their votes. While the RNC was very much a "white convention", it seems like the DNC is going to the other extreme and it could backfire as those "disenfranchised white males" might feel like the Dems don't care enough about them.

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specialsauce
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by specialsauce »

I've got Republican and Democrat friends. I've been completely fine with disagreements in the past with Romney, McCain, and Bush supporters. They all had good qualities they had to offer.

However, bottom line is if you support this guy, you're an asshole. Doesn't mean you have to support Clinton, but if you vote for this guy, you got a one way ticket to hell waiting for you.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Nodack »

I watched a couple of nights of both the Republican and Democrat Conventions.

I am a registered anti-Republican so I am slightly biased. :)

Republican Convention- Doom, gloom, the US and the world are falling apart and only Trump alone can save us from those evil Democrats, minorities and Muslims.

Democrats Convention- Hope, love, all Americans joining together as one to solve our problems.

I thought the Democrats did a good job counterng the GOP convention. The Muslim parents of the slain US soldier asking if Trump has ever read the Constitution and offering Trump a copy of his was powerful.

The retired five star general coming out on stage with fellow veterans and delivering a scathing rebuttal to Trump was very powerful as well. He was like a drill sergeant pissed off. "We will not abandon our allies!" Referring to Trump saying he will not come to the aid of some NATO allies and even wants to disban NATO altogether. No wonder Putin loves him.

They tried real hard to show the personal side of Hillary that most of us never knew since she obviously has a PR problem. Chelsea's introduction and Bill's speech definitely let us into the world of Hillary's life story and that was smart. The GOP has made her into a vile evil demon. We got to see a different side of her. Her mother was abandoned at age four and struggled just to survive. She got a lot of her tenacity from her. He father was a Navy man. She spent most of her adult life trying to help children.

I admit I had an unfavorable opinion of Hillary before the campaign and have found a little more respect for her now. She isn't perfect but, Trump is dangerous and stupid.

i think the perfectly timed release of the DNC emails did some harm but, I think they overcame it as best they could. Bernie supporters were pissed off as they should have been but, Sanders and others preached unity and the big picture. By the end I don't think the email scandal did that much damage. I think it actually hurt Trump worse since his people all cndemned Russia for the attack while Trump praised Russia and invited them to hack some more. That did Trump a lot of damage and now he has even been forced to say he was just kidding, which is code word for I went to far and now I have to try to talk my way out of it.

The polls have been showing them both close. My gut feel g tells me that Trumo will lose in a landslide proving that there is hope for America. If Trump is elected the next four years I fear will be four of the most embarrassing darkest years for America.

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ShelC
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by ShelC »

With regards to the message and tone of the RNC and DNC...the Republicans are obviously going use fear and "the sky is falling" messaging to convince voters we need a change after 8 years of a Dem President. They can't exactly go out there and say things are great, the economy is rebounding, we're defeating terrorism, etc. But to that end, the Dems and Hillary are in a tough spot because they know things are not going well domestically or abroad, yet can't exactly say so without throwing Obama under the bus or giving people a reason to vote Republican. And again, for all of the love and unity, there are still factions on the left that are very divisive. So how do they reconcile all of that? Some of the BLM factions and other "social justice" groups simply do more harm than good when they're interrupting moments of silence for fallen police officers. Both groups just seem to feed off each other.

In terms of Hillary and making her seem likeable, trustworthy, "motherly"...I mean, it's been 25-30 years of her in the political spotlight. Her rep is pretty much solidified, so I don't know if a few speeches over a few days are going to move the needle much. I also find some of her statements laughable, like going after the 1% and how she's going to "follow the money". She's as dirty as the rest so statements like that just ring hollow.

I will say that if any good has come out of this campaign, it's that there's been some, not a lot, but some legitimate conversation about the media and how it needs to take more responsibility in how its covering stories and issues.

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Nodack »

She's dirty as the rest? How so? I'n not denying it, I just want to what you know that I don't. She obviously gets paid to speak at corporate functions sometimes. Does that make her dirty? Democrats have always wanted to go after and tax the 1% more. Is it laughable because they fail to get the tax hikes or is it laughable because you don't think they really try? From the convention they showed her as championing the children's causes early on in her career and that was her sole focus. Maybe they were lying.

I don't think things are great but, I do think that Bush left the country in a lot worse position than he inherited from Clinton. I think Obama has left our country in a much better position than he inherited from Bush. I think Republicans have done just about as much as they could to fuck up Obama's recovery. Just from that alone I see no reason to vote Republican, not counting all the insane BS that Trump and the right have been saying lately.

BLM? Blacks are pissed off that Blacks have been getting killed by trigger happy cops and feel they are being targeted based on their skin color. Watching the numerous videos showing Blacks getting killed by police has done nothing but inflame the sentiment. That's the Black view. The Democrats view is that we need to do something about this problem before it gets out of hand and boils over like it has started to. The Republucan stance seems to be that the Blacks deserved to be shot and that BLM members are all murderers and thugs like those murderous thug Hispanics and those murderous thugs Muslims. My view on this is that we do have a problem. I do believe that the vast majority of cops are doing a good job but, there are some that are total racists and hate blacks and they shouldn't be police officers. The BLM group has a right to be pissed off and protest. One guy went too far and murdered some random innocent cops and that makes him a murderer. That doesn't make all BLM people murderers just like a few white cops killing Blacks doesn't make them all murderers just like a few Muslims killing innocents doesn't make them all murderers.

We are incapable of common sense in this country any more.

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Indy
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Indy »

What strikes me is how good Donald Trump is at selling lies as truths. The majority of people in this country think that Clinton is less honest than Trump. This is the narrative he (and Fox News) trumpets all the time. The scary thing is that it couldn't be further from the truth. Completely independent, Pulitzer-prize winning PoltiFact actually checks every political statement these two make. Trump sells himself as a guy that shoots from the hip, and says what he means, even if people don't like it. And when people don't like what he says, it is because they are too politically correct and don't want to hear the truth.

So when you actually look at the facts (which most in this country tend to ignore lately), 70% of everything he says not true. If you count half-truths, that number jumps to 86%. Nearly 9 out of 10 things he says are not true, and only 4% is "True" (the rest fall into the bucket of "Mostly True"). It is astounding people support someone like this. And the miraculous thing for Trump is that the people that support him usually say that can't support Hillary because she is a liar. Talk about hypocritical.

Just for reporting sake, the numbers look like this for Hillary: 27% is fact-checked as not true. Another 21% in the half-true bucket. So nearly 50% compared to Donald's nearly 90%.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Mori Chu »

^ To respond to Indy's post, I just can't believe that so many people support an openly racist and sexist candidate. Criticizes Muslims all the time. Criticizes women all the time. Criticizes Mexicans, wants to build a wall, accuses a judge of being biased because of "Mexican heritage." Don't even YouTube all his comments about women; they are legion. The guy has done and said so many racist and sexist things, how does he have a voter support base? Is his base really just a bunch of white males? How can that one group hold so much sway?

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carey
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by carey »

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:^ To respond to Indy's post, I just can't believe that so many people support an openly racist and sexist candidate. Criticizes Muslims all the time. Criticizes women all the time. Criticizes Mexicans, wants to build a wall, accuses a judge of being biased because of "Mexican heritage." Don't even YouTube all his comments about women; they are legion. The guy has done and said so many racist and sexist things, how does he have a voter support base? Is his base really just a bunch of white males? How can that one group hold so much sway?
I hesitate to link to this particular site but because it's just an interview with a Yale professor it doesn't qualify directly as spin. So if you want to get into some of the reasons Trump has any kind of base at all have a look at this: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... or-whites/

Once you consider stuff like this and then add in the fact that he's a celebrity "outsider" that will thumb his nose at political correctness you can sort of piece together why this race is closer than it has any right being. Trump is the first Republican nominee to not get a post RNC bump. Thanks to how he's handled this Khan mess he's actually dropped post convention.
You cannot understand what’s happening now without first reading J.D. Vance. His book does for poor white people what Ta-Nehisi Coates’s book did for poor black people: give them voice and presence in the public square.
RD: A friend who moved to West Virginia a couple of years ago tells me that she’s never seen poverty and hopelessness like what’s common there. And she says you can drive through the poorest parts of the state, and see nothing but TRUMP signs. Reading “Hillbilly Elegy” tells me why. Explain it to people who haven’t yet read your book.

J.D. VANCE: The simple answer is that these people–my people–are really struggling, and there hasn’t been a single political candidate who speaks to those struggles in a long time. Donald Trump at least tries.

What many don’t understand is how truly desperate these places are, and we’re not talking about small enclaves or a few towns–we’re talking about multiple states where a significant chunk of the white working class struggles to get by. Heroin addiction is rampant. In my medium-sized Ohio county last year, deaths from drug addiction outnumbered deaths from natural causes. The average kid will live in multiple homes over the course of her life, experience a constant cycle of growing close to a “stepdad” only to see him walk out on the family, know multiple drug users personally, maybe live in a foster home for a bit (or at least in the home of an unofficial foster like an aunt or grandparent), watch friends and family get arrested, and on and on. And on top of that is the economic struggle, from the factories shuttering their doors to the Main Streets with nothing but cash-for-gold stores and pawn shops.

The two political parties have offered essentially nothing to these people for a few decades. From the Left, they get some smug condescension, an exasperation that the white working class votes against their economic interests because of social issues, a la Thomas Frank (more on that below). Maybe they get a few handouts, but many don’t want handouts to begin with.

From the Right, they’ve gotten the basic Republican policy platform of tax cuts, free trade, deregulation, and paeans to the noble businessman and economic growth. Whatever the merits of better tax policy and growth (and I believe there are many), the simple fact is that these policies have done little to address a very real social crisis. More importantly, these policies are culturally tone deaf: nobody from southern Ohio wants to hear about the nobility of the factory owner who just fired their brother.

Trump’s candidacy is music to their ears. He criticizes the factories shipping jobs overseas. His apocalyptic tone matches their lived experiences on the ground. He seems to love to annoy the elites, which is something a lot of people wish they could do but can’t because they lack a platform.

The last point I’ll make about Trump is this: these people, his voters, are proud. A big chunk of the white working class has deep roots in Appalachia, and the Scots-Irish honor culture is alive and well. We were taught to raise our fists to anyone who insulted our mother. I probably got in a half dozen fights when I was six years old. Unsurprisingly, southern, rural whites enlist in the military at a disproportionate rate. Can you imagine the humiliation these people feel at the successive failures of Bush/Obama foreign policy? My military service is the thing I’m most proud of, but when I think of everything happening in the Middle East, I can’t help but tell myself: I wish we would have achieved some sort of lasting victory. No one touched that subject before Trump, especially not in the Republican Party.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Nodack »

I know lots of Trump supporters. My brother and mother are Trump fans. She says everybody is picking on Trump. My step father and her watch FOX and speak fluent racist as does my brother. There's no talking reason with them. They eat up Trump like he was candy and it doesn't matter what stupid things he says. They just tristed his words of course. Trump says it like it is and is going to clean up everything and make America great again. The government is corrupt and only Trump can fix it.

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Cap
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Cap »

carey wrote:Trump is the first Republican nominee to not get a post RNC bump.
538 says Trump got a post-RNC bump of about 3-4 points. Of course, there's no way to know how much of that was due to the convention and how much was due to the DNC email leak that happened at the same time.
Thanks to how he's handled this Khan mess he's actually dropped post convention.
538 sees a 9-10 point post-DNC bump for Clinton, so she's about 6 points stronger than she was before both conventions.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by AmareIsGod »

[youtube][/youtube]
Last edited by AmareIsGod on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Superbone
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Superbone »

Solid take, AIG.
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AmareIsGod
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by AmareIsGod »

Superbone wrote:Solid take, AIG.
Does the video play back for you? It is appearing as a solid black box on both Chrome and Firefox for me. Weird.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Cap
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Cap »

[youtube][/youtube]

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Superbone
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Superbone »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Superbone wrote:Solid take, AIG.
Does the video play back for you? It is appearing as a solid black box on both Chrome and Firefox for me. Weird.
Nope, that's what I'm seeing in Chrome as well. Thus my "solid" take comment. :P
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Nodack
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Re: Democratic National Convention

Post by Nodack »

Personally I thought his comment was a little dark for my tastes.

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