First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

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AmareIsGod
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by AmareIsGod »

I think Trump was talking about Alicia Machado. She was a former pageant winner that he called "Miss Piggy" the other day when he was making fun of her weight.

Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?
To reiterate, these are things he's actually saying daily. Mocking people with disabilities or for their size. Saying extremely blasphemous things off the cuff.
Machado became a central figure in the presidential campaign during the first presidential debate, four days earlier, when Hillary Clinton described how the Venezuelan actress—now a U.S. citizen—was mocked and humiliated by Trump after winning the Miss Universe pageant in 1996. Trump, who owned the pageant, forced her to exercise in front of the press after she gained weight, allegedly calling her “Miss Piggy” and “‘Miss Housekeeping’ because she was Latina."
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ShelC
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by ShelC »

Whatever you can say/write about Trump, you can say/write about Hillary. He's just less political and polished about it.

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O_Gardino
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by O_Gardino »

Cap wrote:Are you voting Johnson because you believe he'd be better than Clinton, or is it a protest vote?

If Johnson and Clinton had equal chances to win and your vote were the potential swing vote, would you still vote for Johnson over Clinton?

ETA: Princess appears not to be a registered write-in candidate in AZ. Clinton, Trump, Johnson and Stein will be the only names on the ballot. Registered write-in candidates include Evan McMullin and a bunch of people you've never heard of. http://apps.azsos.gov/election/2016/General/home.htm
I didn't really answer you the first time. :/

I believe Johnson would be a bad president. But I also believe Clinton would be a criminal president. She would enact laws and foster political relationships that would be harmful to the US and the world for a long time. She's a good enough politician to do it, and a good enough politician that we wouldn't necessarily know for sure what exactly is going on. But she strikes me as every bit as dangerous a sociopath as Trump, just in a very different way. So, yeah, if I knew a vote for Johnson would get him the white house, I would still do it. Even though I don't like him.

I know that's not the consensus, and I've honestly never felt this way about both primary candidates. I've only voted 3rd party in local elections before. I'm still looking for a 3rd party candidate whom I can support more fully than Johnson.

Obv, Princess is a joke (to me), but boy are there a ton of hilarious candidates out there.
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Indy
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:Whatever you can say/write about Trump, you can say/write about Hillary. He's just less political and polished about it.
You think she is a racist, a bigot, and a misogynist? I don't see it.

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ShelC
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by ShelC »

I think she exploits African-Americans for political gain ( and called them Super Predators), she called one her aides a f***kin Jew bastard, systematically ruined Bill's mistress's lives in the 80s and 90s to cover for him, and has referred to disabled kids as retards. She attacks Trump on his 1995 tax form, which you can only view because he didn't have his tax records destroyed like she's done with her emails.

Again, she might not do it into a microphone in front of thousands of people, but it's there. Just look at the deplorables comment. That's how she really feels about people.

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O_Gardino
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by O_Gardino »

ShelC wrote:I think she exploits African-Americans for political gain ( and called them Super Predators), she called one her aides a f***kin Jew bastard, systematically ruined Bill's mistress's lives in the 80s and 90s to cover for him, and has referred to disabled kids as retards. She attacks Trump on his 1995 tax form, which you can only view because he didn't have his tax records destroyed like she's done with her emails.

Again, she might not do it into a microphone in front of thousands of people, but it's there. Just look at the deplorables comment. That's how she really feels about people.
Agreed.
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Indy
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

I think every politician seeking high offices exploits their constituents for public gain. I am not excusing it, just starting it as fact. I just see a huge difference between the two (and I am not a fan of hers).


and deplorable means to "deserve strong condemnation". I have to agree that many of the people supporting trump fall into that category. maybe I am only seeing it that way because of how I get my news, but the number of outspoken white supremacists supporting him is ridiculous. and they aren't even hiding it. they certainly deserve strong expressions of disapproval.

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ShelC
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by ShelC »

I just think the Dems and Clinton campaign have gone out of their way to play up the racial divisions as a means to get the African-American/minority voters. She talks about bringing people together, but I just haven't seen that. Trump will take the white supremacist votes to get elected, but I wouldn't say he's outwardly courting them, and those aren't the only ones that are backing him.

And for the record (If I haven't stated it yet), I'm not voting for Trump or Hillary. I'll defend Trump to a point because I do think he's getting a raw deal in the media and the double standard and hypocrisy for the Clinton Machine is really troubling. She IS the system and everything wrong with government. As much as people say Trump doesn't really want to be Prez, I think the same is true of Hillary. She just feels entitled to it at this point and nothing's going to stop her. She rigged the primaries, rigged the FBI and DOJ investigation, and is working to rig this election.

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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:I just think the Dems and Clinton campaign have gone out of their way to play up the racial divisions as a means to get the African-American/minority voters. She talks about bringing people together, but I just haven't seen that. Trump will take the white supremacist votes to get elected, but I wouldn't say he's outwardly courting them, and those aren't the only ones that are backing him.
I think it is exactly the opposite. DT is the one saying that Obama has caused a racial divide in this country, and certainly says it in words much less nice. When he lies and says he doesn't know who David Duke is, that is courting them. When he says what he says about non-whites, he is courting them.


ShelC wrote: I'll defend Trump to a point because I do think he's getting a raw deal in the media and the double standard and hypocrisy for the Clinton Machine is really troubling. She IS the system and everything wrong with government. As much as people say Trump doesn't really want to be Prez, I think the same is true of Hillary. She just feels entitled to it at this point and nothing's going to stop her. She rigged the primaries, rigged the FBI and DOJ investigation, and is working to rig this election.
Congress is completely controlled by the GOP, but you think she controls enough of them to get by with committing treason? The FBI director is a republican, and spent an hour explaining all the awful things she did before admitting nothing could even be brought to a grand jury. If he was doing his job normally, and controlled by her, he wouldn't have spent an hour talking about it. You won't find a single prosecutor anywhere that could get away with talking for an hour about how what a person did wasn't quite bad enough to be charged. They would likely be sued for lack of due process.

ShelC wrote:And for the record (If I haven't stated it yet), I'm not voting for Trump or Hillary.
I totally understand that. Hope there aren't any hard feelings, Shel. I just love discussing divisive issues.

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ShelC
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by ShelC »

I'm not sure I follow the treason stuff and Comey is now an Independent. As more and more comes out, and I apologize for not knowing all the details or nuances, it seems the FBI more or less went through the motions and then recommended (unusually) that the DOJ not proceed with an investigation. They gave unprecedented immunity deals to her staff who were the ones destroying evidence and didn't even bother with the fact that she and her people destroyed evidence after a subpoena. Then there was the Lynch-Clinton meeting on a tarmac that was "bad optics" (remember, Bill was the one who made Lynch's career back in the 90s).

No hard feelings at all, and I'm glad we can have a civil discussion. I'm not one for politics but this last year and a half has certainly been interesting for me. I find Trump completely fascinating for a dozen reasons, and not all related to politics. If it were Bush or Cruz or Rubio on the GOP ticket, things would be a lot less interesting, that's for sure.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by AmareIsGod »

Shel, did you find his ranting and raving at the Pennsylvania event fascinating? Did you read through the quotes or listen to the event? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Indy
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

AmareIsGod wrote:Shel, did you find his ranting and raving at the Pennsylvania event fascinating? Did you read through the quotes or listen to the event? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I did. I am honestly fascinated by how he can bully his way through nearly anything. If he were running 20 years ago, I think he would be even closer to winning, maybe running away with it. He would be an ultimate power monger in the days before you could easily point out his lies, and even when you can today, he is doing really well. Half the time he doesn't even finish a sentence/thought. It is like he has very little attention to detail, and talks circles around the issues until you stop listening, then finishes with a catch phrase.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by AmareIsGod »

And he physically mocks people for their health issues, whether physical or mental. How is that remotely okay? How is that remotely "fascinating"? He's fascinating like a bad episode of Jerry Springer, the same type of audience I feel he appeals to.
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Nodack
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Nodack »

"She talks about bringing people together, but I just haven't seen that."


I watch her speeches and I watch his speeches and there is a very clear difference between them. She has been fighting for woman's rights since day one and that has encompassed most of her life. Trump has been fighting for himself since day one and nobody else matters. She preaches uniting and respect for Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims. He preaches dividing. We will get those rapist murderous Mexicans, those thug BLM people and not allow any of those terrorist Muslims in our country. We will stop and frisk blacks and investigate Mosques. She says we honor our commitments. He says he will shred our commitments. She does kiss up to minorities and probably some of it is diengenuous but, Trump clearly stokes the fans of racial divide IMO.

The UN just passed a climate deal early so if Trump is elected he can't stop it. They know Trump hates the UN. I have spoken to people from other parts of the world and they are scared shitless of Trump as President.

The candidates are clearly NOT the same. Obama talked about uniting the party and the country and the other side took that as a challenge almost saying "Over our dead bodies". IMO he clearly tried to start out his Presidency by trying to do just that. He kept the Republican Sec of Defence Gates that Bush appointed. He asked for GOP help crafting Obamacare and they said FU. You can't unite somebody that clearly doesn't want to unite just to spite you.

Trumps message is that the country is falling apart, Democrats destroyed it. The world doesn't respect us because Obama is weak. Our economy was destroyed by Democrats. Crime is skyrocketing because of Democrats. The government is this big evil empire run by Democrats whose sole purpose is to take away all your freedoms. The IRS is run by Democrats who only want to get Republicans and protect Democrats. The FBI is run by Democrats who only want to get Republicans and protect Democrats. The Justice Department is run by Democrats. Blacks are all on welfare that whites pay for. Mexicans are stealing all your jobs and raping our women and they get free health care that whites pay for. Democrats have purposely opened the border to let in as many Hispanics as possible. All our trade deals are bogus and if elected I will tear them all up and make all Americans rich. I will build up the military that Obama personally decimated down to two pontoon boats and I will show the rest of the world who's the boss. All you constituents out there should be really really mad. If I lose this election its because of voter fraud.

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ShelC
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by ShelC »

It is like he has very little attention to detail, and talks circles around the issues until you stop listening, then finishes with a catch phrase.
That's one of the things that's interesting. You can see it in just about every rally. And it's maybe less fascinating about him and more fascinating about the audience and the power of a public speaker. It's an interesting dynamic, and a dangerous one.

Overall tho, you look at the man and how he created and cultivated this image and brand over the better part of 30 years. NY real estate developer in the 80s to national and international resort/casino developer/mogul in the 90s, switching to more mainstream clothing collections and then reality TV "star" in the 00s. He's forced his way into the public consciousness and now is at the center of the political world. And no matter what he says or does, nothing sticks to him or brings him down. A year ago it was about the Mexicans. Then the disabled. His taxes. Calling people childish names DURING debates. Talking about the size of his dick, DURING the debates. The Khans a few months ago, Machado last week...it's impressive, no matter how you feel about him.

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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

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AmareIsGod wrote:And he physically mocks people for their health issues, whether physical or mental. How is that remotely okay? How is that remotely "fascinating"? He's fascinating like a bad episode of Jerry Springer, the same type of audience I feel he appeals to.
If he was not fascinating, we wouldn't be getting so many people to love him AND hate him. His antics, and the antics of his disciples, is the very definition of fascinating. At no point is there a positive or negative aspect to "fascinating."

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Indy
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
It is like he has very little attention to detail, and talks circles around the issues until you stop listening, then finishes with a catch phrase.
That's one of the things that's interesting. You can see it in just about every rally. And it's maybe less fascinating about him and more fascinating about the audience and the power of a public speaker. It's an interesting dynamic, and a dangerous one.

Overall tho, you look at the man and how he created and cultivated this image and brand over the better part of 30 years. NY real estate developer in the 80s to national and international resort/casino developer/mogul in the 90s, switching to more mainstream clothing collections and then reality TV "star" in the 00s. He's forced his way into the public consciousness and now is at the center of the political world. And no matter what he says or does, nothing sticks to him or brings him down. A year ago it was about the Mexicans. Then the disabled. His taxes. Calling people childish names DURING debates. Talking about the size of his dick, DURING the debates. The Khans a few months ago, Machado last week...it's impressive, no matter how you feel about him.
Exactly, especially when you consider that by nearly all accounts, he isn't a very successful at business, but he is a successful businessman.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by AmareIsGod »

How is that impressive? Acting like an idiot and an asshole impresses you?
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by Indy »

It is impressive that he can do something different nearly every single day that would disqualify any other candidate, and his support just seems to grow. How is that not impressive? Not to jump the shark, but isn't what Hitler did impressive? And no, I don't mean genocide. I mean the way he rose to power.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

Post by AmareIsGod »

I guess separating an impressive person, which I don't view him as, from the impressive nature of his climb considering everything he does and says regularly are two different things.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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