Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Superbone »

Time: 6:00 pm AZ (6:00 pm PT / 9:00 pm ET)
Place: Washington University, St. Louis, MO
TV: ABC, CBS, PBS, FOX

Should be interesting if nothing else. How much time will Trump's latest indiscretions get?

Dis • cuss
"Be Legendary."

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 12255
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by ShelC »

LOL He just held a pre-debate press conference with some on Bill's accusers on Facebook.

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by AmareIsGod »

Well that was painful. It was like watching BDSM.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by AmareIsGod »

Did he actually answer any of the questions? I'm being serious. I think he responded to EVERY question with a direct attack on Hillary.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by AmareIsGod »

It's the same fucking 2 or 3 things. These fucking Trump people want to sit here and spin on their goddamn thumb in their ass over the same 2 or 3 things. Meanwhile Trump continues to add to his laundry list. I've fucking had it man. I've had it, had it, had it. You look at these idiots that are so pro Trump and look at their Facebook page. It's them usually trashing African Americans as "fake victims" and posting videos of some white guy with a hidden camera in an underprivileged neighborhood holding a sign made to incite anger in those communities as a way to prove that "white people are better than these angry savages that don't care about All Lives!". They have a bunch of Confederate Flag pictures plastered randomly, some anti-Muslim rhetoric, a few birther conspiracies around Obama being a member of ISIS. 27 links everyday trashing Hillary for her email, for Benghazi or for whatever their staple 3rd reason is.

I'm done with it. Absolutely done. The low amounts of critical thinking skills of these mouth breeders that continue to spout the same idiotic shit while they rub their assholes and smell their finger several times a day and look at women as people that "need to be put in their place" or homosexuals as non equals to the straights. Those that believe Noah had an Arch and that a magical, invisible man looks down at us from the clouds and punishes the sinners. Too many people don't have the capacity to put together empathy or to fill the blank thoughts that bounce off their hollow inner skulls and instead waste their time with reality TV and look at their next POTUS as entertainment instead of someone that represents their beliefs and freedoms.

I'm going off because people need to. They need to stand up for and do something. And voting for an Independent isn't going to do a thing. I don't care about the loopholes. Those won't happen. It's seriously as good as a vote for Trump because in no situation will these Independents win, as badly and as strongly as I wish one would.

Wake up. WAKE UP people. And wake up the people around you that are stuck smelling their own breath as a distraction from having to think.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
Wally_West
Posts: 9404
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:12 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Wally_West »

https://twitter.com/davidehrlich/status/785286655141941248

:lol:

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Superbone »

Apparently, they gave Trump the sniff mic again. Pivot is the word of the night. I remember very few times when Trump actually tried to answer the question given to him.
"Be Legendary."

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by AmareIsGod »

He's so impressive. I'm impressed!
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Superbone »

AmareIsGod wrote:He's so impressive. I'm impressed!
We don't get it, AIG.
"Be Legendary."

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Nodack »

WARNING: Long winded post.

I watched the debate. I thought it was kind of a wash. I thought it was kind of ugly too. I watched it on CNN. Trump did a good job of deflecting away from the elephant in the room with the video tape. He really didn't answer any question without immediately pivoting to attack Hillary talking points unrelated to the question.

Full transcript of the debate
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... yptr=yahoo

Republicans have been upset that they believe Obama has been using his powers to push branches of the government into going after Republicans and protecting Democrats. Remember the IRS scandal during the last Presidential election with Republican political groups fundraising under the guise of non partisan tax exempt status getting busted by the IRS and claiming it was all politically motivated and directed by Obama. They are still pushing to fire the IRS head guy over it.

Hillary Clinton not being charged in the email scandal and Republicans claiming The Justice Department and the FBI were doing the bidding of Obama.
Donald Trump speaking about Hillary's emails. Is it true? Who knows? Not me.

Trump busted her chops over destroying emails after being subpoenaed. She never seems to deny it, so she seems guilty of that. Is that a crime? I don't know, seems like it would be.

DT: If I win, I'm going to instruct the attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there's never been so many lies, so much deception.

Clinton: It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law of our country.

DT: Because you'd be in jail.

Did he just say he would use his powers as President to try put Hillary in jail if elected?
Hmmmm

There are also things called issues. We seem all preoccupied with the scandals and the issues aren't even part of the equation anymore.

Terrorism
I think ISIS is a problem but, not nearly as much a threat to the US as is made out to be. I think the way we are handling it now is a best case scenario. ISIS came to power and took over a large area. We can play the blame game until we are blue in the face but, lots of factors led to their rise. Since then they have lost over half their area thanks to those locals in the Mid East fighting them like the Kurds from Turkey (Who Turkey labels terrorists and is fighting but, allows the US to position air power from Turkish air bases like Incirlik) and the US Airpower, training and equipment. It hasn't completely stopped ISIS but, they are losing ground, not gaining. Thousands of US soldiers aren't dying in the conflict but, thousands of ISIS members have.

There are around 16,238 murders per year in the United States; this averages out to around 44 murders per day. I don't believe 44 Americans have been killed in the US by terrorism in the past decade combined. Is it something we have to be diligent about? Yes, I think so. Is it something we need to be panicking over? I don't think so. Toxoplasmosis is a brain-parasite. The CDC reports that more than 375 Americans die annually due to toxoplasmosis. In addition, 3 Americans died in 2011 after being exposed to a brain-eating amoeba. So you’re about 22 times more likely to die from a brain-eating zombie parasite than a terrorist. I think what we are doing about ISIS is a good course and is showing results. Almost a non issue with me.

Trumps position on combating ISIS seems to be "I am going to have very few troops on the ground. We're going to have unbelievable intelligence, which we need; which, right now, we don't have. We don't have the people over there," he said. Trump added: "We're going to have surrounding states and, very importantly, get NATO involved because we support NATO far more than we should, frankly, because you have a lot of countries that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. We have to wipe out ISIS." "I'd bomb the hell out of them!"


Well, we have very few troops on the ground coordinating with our allies which include NATO and we are bombing the hell out of them. Trumps position seems to be Obama's position except that he says Obama isn't doing enough. My verdict: Trump wouldn't do anything different except take credit for personally taking down ISIS himself.

I went to Hillary's site and she has a very detailed action for everything she would do. My verdict: Hillary would be doing the exact same thing Obama is already doing.

The only difference in their ISIS policies I can see mostly are that Trump's position on accepting Muslim immigrants and Establish a Commission on Radical Islam to identify and explain to the American public the core convictions and beliefs of Radical Islam. Sounds to me like a commission to scare Americans into hating Muslims. Obama and Hillary don't use the word radical Islam because they believe that ISIS doesn't speak for Islam and labeling all Muslim terrorists as radical Islam makes people like Trump supporters believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that isn't the message Obama and Hillary want to get out.

All of the US terrorists have been Americans who were turned pro ISIS by ISIS propaganda on the internet, not Muslim refugees as far as I know.

My verdict: Keep doing what we are doing.

Iraq War
Was Trump for or against the War?

I don't care.

Health Care
Debate question
Ken: Thank you. The Affordable Care Act known as Obamacare, it is not affordable. Premiums have gone up. Deductibles have gone up. Copays have gone up. Prescriptions have gone up and the coverage has gone down. What will you do to bring the cost down, and make coverage better?

AC: That first one goes to secretary Clinton because you started out the last one to the audience.

HC: He wants to start. He can start. Go ahead, Donald.

DT: No, I'm a gentlemen, go ahead.

HC: Well, I think he was about to say he's going to solve it by repealing it and getting rid of the Affordable Care Act and I'm going to fix it. Because I agree with you. Premiums have gotten too high. Copay, deductibles, prescription drug costs — and I've laid out a series of options we can take to try to get those costs down.


https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Here's what I don't want people to forget when we talk about ranging in the cost. When the Affordable Care Act passed, it wasn't just 20 million [people who] got insurance who didn't have it before. That was a good thing.

Number one, insurance companies can't deny you coverage because of a preexisting condition. Number two, no lifetime limits, which is a big deal in you have serious health problems. Number three, women can't be charged more than men for health insurance, which is the way it used to be. Number four, if you're under 26, and your parents have a policy, you can be on that policy until age 26. So I want very much to save what works and is good about the affordable care act, but we've got to get costs down. We've got to provide additional help to small businesses. To know that they can afford to provide health insurance. But if we repeal it as Donald has proposed and start over again, all of those benefits are lost to everybody. Not just people who get their health insurance on the exchange. And then we would have to start all over again. Right now, we are at 90 percent health insurance coverage. That's highest we've ever been in our country. I want us to get 100% and keep costs down and quality up.


I went to her site and she promises to try to bring health care costs down. She says a lot of stuff but, can she deliver? Can she make drug companies lower prices they charge Americans. There are many factors to health care prices. I am on blood thinners right now. A months supply is $400. I pay a lot less but, my insurance company picks up the rest. Other countries pay less than Americans for the exact same stuff. My verdict: I'll believe it when I see it. We Americans pay a lot more than the rest of the world for health care. I was hoping Bernie could do something about it. I think Hillary will try. I think she will fail. Health care prices have always gone up, never ever down.

Trump on Health Care.

Long winded rant on Obamacare being the most horrible thing ever to happen. Then...

DT: First of all, Hillary, everything's broken about it. Everything. Number two, Bernie Sanders said Hillary Clinton has very bad judgment. This is a perfect example of it.

MR: Mr. Trump, you've said you want to end Obamacare and make coverage accessible for people with preexisting conditions. How do you force insurance companies to do that if you're no longer mandating — what does that mean?

DT: I'll tell you. You're going to have plans that are so good because we're going to have some competition. Once we break out the lines and allow the competition to come.

AC: Are you going to have a mandate that Americans have to have health insurance?

DT: President Obama by keeping those — and it was almost gone until just right toward the end of the passage of Obamacare, which was a fraud. You know that, because Jonathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare, said it was a great lie. It was big lie. President Obama said you keep your plan, the whole thing was a fraud and it doesn't work.

When we get rid of those lines, you have competition and we'll be able to keep preexisting and help people that can't get, don't have money because we are going to have people protected. And Republicans feel this way. Believe it or not and strongly this way. We're going to block grant. Into the states. Block grant into medicaid. So we will be able to take care of people without the necessary funds to take care of themselves.


I admit, I am not sure what the hell he is talking about. Sounded like a bunch of BS that doesn't mean anything. Get rid of lines and that will introduce competition and automatically make health insurance affordable? State lines? Block Grants? I had to look it up.

http://www.cbpp.org/blog/proposed-medic ... derinsured
House Budget Committee Chairman Tom Price’s budget plan proposes to radically restructure Medicaid by converting it to a block grant and cutting federal funding for it steeply, by $913 billion over the next decade. It would also repeal health reform’s Medicaid expansion. The combined Medicaid cut would reach $1.8 trillion over ten years, relative to current law, adding tens of millions of Americans to the ranks of the uninsured and underinsured.

The Urban Institute also estimated that the block grant likely would have caused cuts in reimbursements to health care providers of more than 30 percent by the tenth year. Chairman Price’s Medicaid block grant proposal likely would mean similarly draconian cuts.


I just found a link to Trumps health Care Reform plan

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Healthcare_Reform.pdf
My Verdict: Trump says a lot of things on his page. Some of them sounded good. How much do I believe? His track record isn't good. According to the other site I went to Trumps plan means tens of millions losing their health insurance and health care providers get stiffed for 30% of what they are supposed to be paid. What I believe? He would try to repeal Obamacare and do nothing else about it.

Taxes
Trump says Hillary is going to raise taxes on everybody bigly. She says she won't raise taxes on anybody making less than $250,000 which is most of America.

Her Tax Page
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/a ... ax-system/

Trump says to get rid of Carried Interest. I had to look that one up too and found a good article on it.

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-carried-int ... le-2100059

Obama, Trump, Jeb Bush and pretty much everybody except investment people want it gone.

In an op-ed defending the arrangement, Private Equity Growth Capital Council CEO Steve Judge wrote, “The capital gains rate exists to provide incentive for investment partnerships to take risks, invest hundreds of billions of dollars of capital into new and existing businesses and contribute operational expertise to improve these businesses over time.”

As a political prop, the issue is a surefire way to stoke populist ire. But as a matter of tax revenue, it’s up for debate.

The Treasury Department has calculated that closing the carried interest loophole would generate around $1.8 billion a year -- not exactly a windfall for a government that collected more than $3 trillion in taxes in 2014.

But experts have questioned that estimate. Victor Fleischer, a tax law scholar and New York Times columnist, examined IRS data and determined that the total could be as high as $18 billion a year. That's enough to raise a little more than political hay.


Trumps Tax Page
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan/

Mostly lowering taxes and closing loopholes.

Trump says corporate taxes have gotten way out of hand in America.

Image

That chart tells me that the corporate rate isn't getting higher but, lower.

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate and a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates .[1] However, the average corporate tax rate in 2011 dipped to 12.1%, its lowest level since before World War I, largely due to the great recession and a bonus depreciation tax break.

My Verdict: We have this same discussion every election. Democrats raise taxes, Republicans lower taxes. Taxes pay our bills for the country. I think people like less taxes but, we still need to pay our bills as a country right? Tax rates were higher under Bill Clinton. He had balanced budget, lowered the debt and the economy purred. Was that because of raising taxes? Who knows? Bush came in, lowered taxes, doubled the debt and we had the great recession. Does that prove lowering taxes caused all that? No. Does it prove lowering taxes stimulated the economy? No. I guess that's why we are so easily led to believe in both strategies. It's hard to prove one way or another. I myself believe we should pay enough taxes to get the job done and make it fair. Billionaires going decades without paying any taxes tells me that we have a problem. Politics and specials interests/Lobbying tells me it won't ever be fair. Who do we believe? That's the million dollar question. Will Hillary and Trump fix it? I think we already know the answer.

I am tired of writing and it's so long nobody will probably read it anyway.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 8553
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Cap »

I don't believe 44 Americans have been killed in the US by terrorism in the past decade combined.
Orlando doesn't count? That was 49 in one incident.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Nodack »

Ok, add that to the list. You are still more likely to die from a brain-eating zombie parasite than a terrorist.

User avatar
LazarusLong
Posts: 3140
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by LazarusLong »

Not a Hillary fan, but Trump is so over-the-top it seems like he's emerged from a B-science fiction movie.

His strategy was to sling as much goo as possible, hoping something will stick.

He reminds me of a candidate who ran for Congress in the South in the '50s.
The candidate told rural voters that his opponent, an incumbent, "actually matriculated in college and associated with known thespians."
The yahoos in the crowds were properly horrified and voted the incumbent out of office.

Don't overestimate the power of mass stupidity ...
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 8553
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Cap »

LazarusLong wrote: He reminds me of a candidate who ran for Congress in the South in the '50s.
The candidate told rural voters that his opponent, an incumbent, "actually matriculated in college and associated with known thespians."
The yahoos in the crowds were properly horrified and voted the incumbent out of office.

Don't overestimate the power of mass stupidity ...
Apocryphal.

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/02/24/us/le ... in-50.html

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 20891
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Mori Chu »

AmareIsGod wrote:It's the same f*** 2 or 3 things. These f*** Trump people want to sit here and spin on their goddamn thumb in their ass over the same 2 or 3 things. Meanwhile Trump continues to add to his laundry list. I've f*** had it man. I've had it, had it, had it. You look at these idiots that are so pro Trump and look at their Facebook page. It's them usually trashing African Americans as "fake victims" and posting videos of some white guy with a hidden camera in an underprivileged neighborhood holding a sign made to incite anger in those communities as a way to prove that "white people are better than these angry savages that don't care about All Lives!". They have a bunch of Confederate Flag pictures plastered randomly, some anti-Muslim rhetoric, a few birther conspiracies around Obama being a member of ISIS. 27 links everyday trashing Hillary for her email, for Benghazi or for whatever their staple 3rd reason is.

I'm done with it. Absolutely done. The low amounts of critical thinking skills of these mouth breeders that continue to spout the same idiotic s*** while they rub their a****** and smell their finger several times a day and look at women as people that "need to be put in their place" or homosexuals as non equals to the straights. Those that believe Noah had an Arch and that a magical, invisible man looks down at us from the clouds and punishes the sinners. Too many people don't have the capacity to put together empathy or to fill the blank thoughts that bounce off their hollow inner skulls and instead waste their time with reality TV and look at their next POTUS as entertainment instead of someone that represents their beliefs and freedoms.

I'm going off because people need to. They need to stand up for and do something. And voting for an Independent isn't going to do a thing. I don't care about the loopholes. Those won't happen. It's seriously as good as a vote for Trump because in no situation will these Independents win, as badly and as strongly as I wish one would.

Wake up. WAKE UP people. And wake up the people around you that are stuck smelling their own breath as a distraction from having to think.
AIG: I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it is good to tie it so strongly to a blanket criticism of religion. Religion is a positive force in many people's lives, and while I'm agnostic myself and while some religious folks say things I strongly disagree with, I want to attack their ideas and not their faith.

I think that in order for us to make progress we need to be able to find common ground. It is not likely for that to happen if we attack people for believing in an "invisible man [who] looks down at us from the clouds". They can believe in any God(s) they like, so long as we can give people basic human rights and decency. A lot of younger religious people especially understand this, and I think in time, the minority of church-goers with backward beliefs will decline in number and authority.

Despite the presence of a few troubling passages in the Bible, I think the overall message of that book is a positive one, about loving your fellow humans and being kind and doing the right thing. Once the social politics of the various churches move forward to accepting everyone (LGBT especially) as they are, I think we will not have so much to fight about.

User avatar
AmareIsGod
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by AmareIsGod »

I had a couple of beers in me last night and was fired up. Much of what I said as personal attacks on beliefs and people can be discarded and my displeasure towards Trump can remain.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Nodack »

If I was aleader way back in the day, I think I might have invented a God too. God wants you to be nice to each other, smite our enemies, pay taxes and listen to everthing Nodack says or else you will burn in eternity.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 8553
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Cap »

It probably was you, in a previous life. Now how are you going to atone for it?

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by Nodack »

Too deep for me.

User avatar
LazarusLong
Posts: 3140
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Second Presidential Debate: Sun 10/9

Post by LazarusLong »

Cap wrote:
LazarusLong wrote: He reminds me of a candidate who ran for Congress in the South in the '50s.
The candidate told rural voters that his opponent, an incumbent, "actually matriculated in college and associated with known thespians."
The yahoos in the crowds were properly horrified and voted the incumbent out of office.

Don't overestimate the power of mass stupidity ...
Apocryphal.

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/02/24/us/le ... in-50.html

Yeah, Smathers was associated with one story, and I think the Long brothers, Huey and Earl, may have given rise to others.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

Post Reply