Mueller/Russia investigation

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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https://www.rferl.org/a/us-judge-warns- ... 10979.html

Federal prosecutors last week filed papers in the case against Paul Manafort, saying that despite his being under house arrest, he had worked with a Ukraninan colleague to write an article in the English-language Kyiv Post.

That article, which appeared under the name of a former Ukrainian government official, praised Manafort's political work in Ukraine.

Judge Amy Jackson chided Manafort in a December 11 court hearing, and warned that similar efforts in the future would affect the ongoing case against him.

Manafort and business associate Rick Gates face charges including conspiracy to launder money and failing to register as a foreign agent, for Manafort's years of working for pro-Russian Ukrainian political parties.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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I did a little research on Trumps ties to Russia and put together a few links. Trump said early on that him and his team had absolutely no ties to Russia. That has been proven false. Some Americans have wondered why Trump has defended Russia so much.

Trump was negotiating a brand new Trump Tower in Moscow during the election and needs Putins approval...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 292d26e109

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-kn ... d=49472342

Tillerson, CEO of Exxon negotiated a huge oil deal with Russia and even got a medal pinned on him by Putin himself for it. The only catch, the sanctions must be lifted first...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/11/investi ... index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/worl ... tions.html

https://350.org/oil-russia-and-trump/

Manafort and Sessions secretly were pro Russian lobbyists for the Ukraine working against the US and were paid $14,000,000. They laundered the money and told Congress they didn’t have anything to do with the Russians. They were busted. Manaforts charges-Lying to Congress, money laundering and conspiracy against the United States....
https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pau ... 1.12187653

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 816242001/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70436.html

Trumps sons emails detail them eager to meet with the Russians in an attempt to sway the election. Other emails detail them working with Wikileaks to throw the election...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12 ... -know.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 1e543b5d78

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1BI2B0

Who financed Trumps golf courses? The Russians.
“Dodson recalled that when he then asked Eric Trump to explain where the $100 million came from, Eric said the company wasn't relying on American banks for the funding because American banks had been reluctant to put money into golf courses after the recession.
"We have all the funding we need out of Russia," Eric reportedly said.
"Really?" Dodson recalled answering.
"Oh, yeah," he said Eric Trump answered. "We've got some guys that really, really love golf, and they're really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time."

http://www.businessinsider.com/eric-tru ... ing-2017-5

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... -property/

And people wondered why Trump was so pro Russia. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put the pieces together.

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carey
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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Check out Seth Abramson on twitter. He is a former lawyer that has been piecing this together. Today's news about Popadopolous was big.
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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC »

I don't think it's any big secret that Trump's been using Russian money for the better part of 20 years. He went bust in the 90s and couldn't get a loan in the US. I'm sure he's cut tons of deals with shady Russian millionaires/billionaires, has ties to the government etc. And that's why Mueller went after his financial records with Deutche Bank. Conflict of interest? Absolutely. Collusion? Still not sure. And I don't think it would make Putin a genius to look at our election and say "We'd be a lot better off with Trump as Prez than Hillary" and then order his people to help sway the election.

I do think guys like Manafort and Flynn were taking money and acting as foreign agents on behalf of Russia (and other countries like Ukraine). I do think there were backroom meetings and communications over sanctions and other deals by them during and after the election. I absolutely think both, and any others like them, should go to prison for a long time. But I'm still not convinced Trump or his sons or Kushner actively approached the Russians and asked for help winning the election. Seems like the Russians approached them (with that meeting)...what actually took place or came out of that meeting, I don't know.

But again, it all flows back to the money. Tillerson with Exxon, Trump with his properties, the Middle East, North Korea....I don't know that any collusion actually took place or that Trump himself were involved. I think it'd be a lot easier to prove ethics violations and conflicts of interest, which he seems to be guilty of everyday, yet the Rs seem to have forgotten those rules and laws.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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This is why we have emoluments clauses. They are being flagrantly violated every day, but nobody seems to care.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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IS DONALD TRUMP’S DARK RUSSIAN SECRET HIDING IN DEUTSCHE BANK’S VAULTS?
http://www.newsweek.com/2017/12/29/dona ... 53780.html

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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It isn't even a "dark secret" at this point. Russians have been bailing out his businesses and funneling him millions of dollars since the 1990s. His campaign eagerly met with them to agree to distribute illegally obtained dirt on his political opponent. He in return is relaxing sanctions against Russia as president and has publicly praised and worked with them. It's all out in the open; the question is just whether our government and country care enough to do anything about it.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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When did the Russians start to be capitalistic and the Soviet Union collapse?

What was the illegally obtained dirt on Hillary that Trump obtained from Russians?

Weren't the sanctions increased after the election by Obama and the incoming administration reached out to them to not go ballistic over having the Ambassadors kicked out?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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In2ition wrote:When did the Russians start to be capitalistic and the Soviet Union collapse?

What was the illegally obtained dirt on Hillary that Trump obtained from Russians?

Weren't the sanctions increased after the election by Obama and the incoming administration reached out to them to not go ballistic over having the Ambassadors kicked out?
Lenin wrote a book on Capitalism in something like 1899. Capitalism has been a hit and miss thing in Russia.

The communist days were numbered, in 1991, an independence movement arose, causing the USSR to implode and break up as a union of socialist republics (Moran & Harris, Pg. 438). Russia held its first ever election, electing Boris Yeltsin. He had plans for drastic market reforms through the use of shock therapy. The reforms involved withdrawing regulations, price controls and subsidies to the state owned industries and opening up the nation to import goods at cheaper prices thereby diminishing monopolies the government had set up(No Author, 2012). This was the major obstacles towards adapting a capitalistic system. Before the turn of the century Russia realized capitalism was simply not working. Despite high levels of education the Russian population simply lacked business skills. The economy underwent a depression and life expectancy declined sharply with the poverty rate at an all-time high. Many Russians, felt that they were better off during the communist regime. Several Eastern European countries share a history of Communist rule. While Communism has left its mark in this region, it’s now a thing of the past for many European Countries.


They didn’t get any dirt on Hillary from the meeting. They were promised dirt and instead the Russians wanted to talk about adoption law. At least that’s what has been said. I think the point is that Trumps team was eager to talk to the Russians behind closed doors and weren’t interested in alerting anybody such as the FBI.


The sanctions were increased by Obama after the Intelligence community told him the Russians were meddling in our elections. Trumps team did reach out to Russia assuring them that things would be different under Trump. Since then though Trump has taken a lot of flack for kissing Russia’s ass and attacking American institutions. The new Russian alliance has been short lived. Congress has blocked Trumps alliance.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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And with regard to the sanctions, the Obama admin increased them in late in 2016 due to the intelligence reports, and then both sides of the isle in congress in mid-2017 passed a bill to increase them. But even though Trump signed the bill, he hasn't actually implemented the sanctions. And it was passed by congress in August.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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Have any of you looked at the transcript of this Fusion GPS hearing that was released by Dianne Feinstein? It's pretty amazing. There is a lot here to corroborate the oppo research done by Fusion and corroborated in the now infamous Steele Dossier, indicating deep ties and conflicts between Trump and Russia, both in terms of his businesses, his political campaign, and potentially compromising material Russia has on the guy.

Here's one link; more will be to come as people read the whole transcript and react:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/ ... der-329573

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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A Redditor summed up my thoughts about this.
It's important when you read this stuff to remember that the GOP knows all of this - all of this - and their reaction has been to bury it. They don't care at all about the substance. They don't care that the President of the United States might be being blackmailed and that our intelligence community is concerned about this.
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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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Flagrant Fowl wrote:A Redditor summed up my thoughts about this.
It's important when you read this stuff to remember that the GOP knows all of this - all of this - and their reaction has been to bury it. They don't care at all about the substance. They don't care that the President of the United States might be being blackmailed and that our intelligence community is concerned about this.
I would like to think the Dems wouldn't do the same, but I am not sure. We are in an age where it is win at all costs, and "win" means your party, not your country.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Mori Chu »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:A Redditor summed up my thoughts about this.
It's important when you read this stuff to remember that the GOP knows all of this - all of this - and their reaction has been to bury it. They don't care at all about the substance. They don't care that the President of the United States might be being blackmailed and that our intelligence community is concerned about this.
This is spot on. They are putting party over country. It's absolutely scandalous. All I can hope is that there's a huge "blue wave" to vote a lot of them out of office. And that the Dems, once in power, behave better.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Flagrant Fowl wrote:A Redditor summed up my thoughts about this.
It's important when you read this stuff to remember that the GOP knows all of this - all of this - and their reaction has been to bury it. They don't care at all about the substance. They don't care that the President of the United States might be being blackmailed and that our intelligence community is concerned about this.
This is spot on. They are putting party over country. It's absolutely scandalous. All I can hope is that there's a huge "blue wave" to vote a lot of them out of office. And that the Dems, once in power, behave better.
I guarantee that neither side will behave better. Never have, never will. "PAA...Party Above All!!!"
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Superbone
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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In2ition wrote:
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Flagrant Fowl wrote:A Redditor summed up my thoughts about this.
It's important when you read this stuff to remember that the GOP knows all of this - all of this - and their reaction has been to bury it. They don't care at all about the substance. They don't care that the President of the United States might be being blackmailed and that our intelligence community is concerned about this.
This is spot on. They are putting party over country. It's absolutely scandalous. All I can hope is that there's a huge "blue wave" to vote a lot of them out of office. And that the Dems, once in power, behave better.
I guarantee that neither side will behave better. Never have, never will. "PAA...Party Above All!!!"
This whole situation is ripe for a Black Mirror story. Unfortunately, we're living it.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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One side always goes too far and the other side wins by a landslide. The other side thinks they have a mandate to do whatever they want. They go too far and the cycle repeats itself, plus after 8 years everybody wonders if the grass is greener and on the other side.

I am a Moderate. In todays politics I guess that makes me a liberal. Just want things to work with the system we’ve got. Tax enough to pay our bills. If we want to make cuts to things then so be it. This massive debt we have isn’t going away and neither side is doing anything about it other than blaming the other side. We have a massive debt and went through a huge recession where ot ballooned even more. Experts say bad times hurts the amount of incoming taxes and in good times the amount collected from taxes goes up. We just gave a massive tax cut which will add 1.5 trillion to our debt and everybody is talking about how great the economy is doing. If it is doing so well why are we cutting taxes and raising the debt even more?

We are one of the richest countries on the planet and we are the only industrialized country on earth that doesn’t have Universal Health Care and we pay twice as much as the rest of the planet does. We should be able to do better. It should be in ALL of our best interests to fix health care but, politics dictates we have to appose each other no matter what.

I cannot express my dislike for Trump enough. I think he is a bad person. I think he is dirty to the core. The circumstantial evidence against him in the Russian scandal is overwhelming IMO. His entire team had deep Russian connections where a LOT of money changed hands and they ALL denied it until presented with the evidence. Trump says everybody knows and says there was no collusion and that it is just a Democrat witch hunt. That’s BS. Sure the Democrats are going after him. That goes without saying.

Trump demanded the DOJ go after Hillary in response to his Russian investigation and now they have. Trump says he has every right to do whatever he wants with the Department of Justice. Presidents can order hits on political rivals now? Is that in the Constitution?

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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In2ition wrote:I guarantee that neither side will behave better. Never have, never will. "PAA...Party Above All!!!"
I do think it's important to call out that the Republicans have been far more nefarious than the Democrats for the past 20 years at least. Obstruction, filibustering, refusing to vote on Supreme Court justices, disenfranchising voters, etc. The Dems don't do these things on the scale that the Republicans have been doing them. And the lengths to which the GOP has gone to defend a President who has likely committed crimes with a foreign enemy nation (Russia), as well as his acts of sexual predation, policies that are openly racist and discriminatory on their faces, etc., are just shameful.

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
In2ition wrote:I guarantee that neither side will behave better. Never have, never will. "PAA...Party Above All!!!"
I do think it's important to call out that the Republicans have been far more nefarious than the Democrats for the past 20 years at least. Obstruction, filibustering, refusing to vote on Supreme Court justices, disenfranchising voters, etc. The Dems don't do these things on the scale that the Republicans have been doing them. And the lengths to which the GOP has gone to defend a President who has likely committed crimes with a foreign enemy nation (Russia), as well as his acts of sexual predation, policies that are openly racist and discriminatory on their faces, etc., are just shameful.
Many could argue that far more has been done by the Democrats. I wish they would both be above board and clean, but you can't believe a word from either side, unless you belong to one "side" or the other and then their word is absolute Gospel truth.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

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In2ition wrote:
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
In2ition wrote:I guarantee that neither side will behave better. Never have, never will. "PAA...Party Above All!!!"
I do think it's important to call out that the Republicans have been far more nefarious than the Democrats for the past 20 years at least. Obstruction, filibustering, refusing to vote on Supreme Court justices, disenfranchising voters, etc. The Dems don't do these things on the scale that the Republicans have been doing them. And the lengths to which the GOP has gone to defend a President who has likely committed crimes with a foreign enemy nation (Russia), as well as his acts of sexual predation, policies that are openly racist and discriminatory on their faces, etc., are just shameful.
Many could argue that far more has been done by the Democrats. I wish they would both be above board and clean, but you can't believe a word from either side, unless you belong to one "side" or the other and then their word is absolute Gospel truth.
If you are talking about the last 20 years, you would only be having the kind of arguments that Trump has--baseless. I totally agree that going back further, they sure did.

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