Mueller/Russia investigation

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:16 am

From what I've read, a pardon can only be used for charges at the federal level. I thought that some of Cohen's charges were brought up by the state as a means to protect against a pardon. Manafort's charges were federal, which is probably why he kept his mouth shut as he'll get pardoned. If there's no chance of a pardon for Cohen, he's got nothing to gain by covering for Trump and thus, took the plea deal.

Of course, at Trump's WV rally last night everyone was chanting "lock her up" and "drain the swamp". It's crazy the power and effect of a crowd/mob. I'm sure this will only galvanize his supporters and strengthen his base. The Dems need to be careful not to celebrate this too much and throw it in the other side's face. This needs to be about the crimes committed and upholding the law, not just about screaming "impeach", "resist", "illegitimate President", "told ya so", etc.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:11 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:16 am
From what I've read, a pardon can only be used for charges at the federal level. I thought that some of Cohen's charges were brought up by the state as a means to protect against a pardon. Manafort's charges were federal, which is probably why he kept his mouth shut as he'll get pardoned. If there's no chance of a pardon for Cohen, he's got nothing to gain by covering for Trump and thus, took the plea deal.
There may be other state charges to come, but although Meuller sent these over to the SDNY, that is a federal branch. These were federal charges.
ShelC wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:16 am
Of course, at Trump's WV rally last night everyone was chanting "lock her up" and "drain the swamp". It's crazy the power and effect of a crowd/mob. I'm sure this will only galvanize his supporters and strengthen his base. The Dems need to be careful not to celebrate this too much and throw it in the other side's face. This needs to be about the crimes committed and upholding the law, not just about screaming "impeach", "resist", "illegitimate President", "told ya so", etc.
Yes, it needs to be about the crimes. But his base doesn't care about money laundering or "meddling" if it means their team won. How many Pats fans care that they were illegally stealing signs from the other team. Or about deflate gate. NONE. Because their team won. It isn't about right or wrong. If they don't care about this particular law, and their representatives in Congress don't either, we are all f***.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:38 am

The thing I don't get is, why don't more Republicans denounce Trump? He's clearly reprehensible. If you get him out, you get a President Pence, which would still allow you to have your Supreme Court Justices and your tax cuts and such things. But then you at least wouldn't have a criminal of such low character in the White House. Why not support getting him out of there?

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:25 am

I think Republican politicians have been afraid to do or say anything against Trump fearing reprisals. He clearly has the support of his people. Holding on to their seat is more important than doing the right thing.

I think once the wheels come off the Trump train you will see most of them turn on him. Until then they will publicly support him. The wheels are wobbling on the train though. After yesterday I’m sure many Republican politicians are making sure they know where their emergency escape routes are.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Nodack wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:25 am
I think Republican politicians have been afraid to do or say anything against Trump fearing reprisals. He clearly has the support of his people. Holding on to their seat is more important than doing the right thing.

I think once the wheels come off the Trump train you will see most of them turn on him. Until then they will publicly support him. The wheels are wobbling on the train though. After yesterday I’m sure many Republican politicians are making sure they know where their emergency escape routes are.
This. And, you don't want to admit to be a member of the party that had a president removed from office.

If you think about it, the GOP has gone under some drastic changes over the last 20-30 years. They changed parties 3 times. You went from the Reagan/Bush type, to the Newt type, back to more traditional for a time, to the Tea Party, to Trump. I know there are similarities there, but not as much as you may think. That lack of stability means your party doesn't have a unifying voice or direction. If you don't have that, you don't really have a party. At least not in the historical sense. So if Trump flames out, it could be seen as the GOP dying a bit. And members don't want to see that, because that means there isn't a nice, simple funnel to use for people (ahem, companies) to send money and distribute to party candidates.

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:50 pm

Agreed. No one wants to cross Trump and deal with his Twitter wrath and then the wrath of his rabid base. It's the party of Trump, and all the Rs know it. They're riding the Trump train as long as they can, just trying to hold their jobs as long as they can.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:40 pm

ShelC wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:50 pm
Agreed. No one wants to cross Trump and deal with his Twitter wrath and then the wrath of his rabid base. It's the party of Trump, and all the Rs know it. They're riding the Trump train as long as they can, just trying to hold their jobs as long as they can.
Yep. I think if they saw the companies giving money to the few white old guys that are not supporting Trump, and the voters started to sour on him, they would dump him for Pence without too much thought. But that isn't happening. Those that support him are getting more fervent, even though there are less and less sitting on the fence. Over the past two weeks, his approval has gone up 1% with likely voters to just over 42%. I am curious if the next poll aggregates will show much change after this week.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:07 pm

I think the GOP message has fluctuated over the years but the core theme is the same. Lower taxes on the rich, big military and cut programs that help regular people.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:17 pm

Nodack wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:07 pm
I think the GOP message has fluctuated over the years but the core theme is the same. Lower taxes on the rich, big military and cut programs that help regular people.
I disagree. I think the general thought in the past was to oppose nearly all tax spend that isn't related to national defense in an effort to keep the government small and taxes low for everyone (not just rich). That usually meant being against social programs, or ecological conservation programs, or programs working with/supporting other countries (or even local jurisdictions in the US). It may come out to be a net similar effect, but I wouldn't say that was the intent.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:54 am

Net result is the same either way. Intent can be argued since it’s a state of mind and none of us are mind readers.

In other news, Trumps CFO of 40+ years has been granted immunity from prosecutors. That has to be really bad news for Trump in a week that has already been disastrous.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:49 pm

I think the story of the downfall of Trump will undoubtedly include mention of this week as a devastating week for his Presidency.

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Superbone
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:00 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:54 am
Net result is the same either way. Intent can be argued since it’s a state of mind and none of us are mind readers.

In other news, Trumps CFO of 40+ years has been granted immunity from prosecutors. That has to be really bad news for Trump in a week that has already been disastrous.
You saw The Untouchables, right?
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Cap
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Cap » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:06 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:00 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:54 am
Net result is the same either way. Intent can be argued since it’s a state of mind and none of us are mind readers.

In other news, Trumps CFO of 40+ years has been granted immunity from prosecutors. That has to be really bad news for Trump in a week that has already been disastrous.
You saw The Untouchables, right?
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:52 am

Giuliani: Trump legal team may try to block Mueller from releasing final report
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... sing-final

President Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is claiming that the president's legal team may invoke executive privilege to stop special counsel Robert Mueller's final report on the Russia investigation from being released to the public.

Wow!

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Superbone
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:07 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:52 am
Giuliani: Trump legal team may try to block Mueller from releasing final report
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... sing-final

President Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is claiming that the president's legal team may invoke executive privilege to stop special counsel Robert Mueller's final report on the Russia investigation from being released to the public.

Wow!
Wouldn't that be political suicide? Showing that you fear the results to the public? Just the threat of it is enough to show that.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:35 pm

No, because the FBI is fake, corrupt, deep state, filled with Obama people and cannot be trusted. :)

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:45 pm

I was hearing that it is standard FBI policy not to comment on investigations within 60 days of an election so as to avoid tampering with it, which would mean that Mueller would have to go silent starting next week. But how can this be their policy, when James Comey clearly discussed FBI investigations into Hillary Clinton just days before the 2016 election?

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:42 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 418720bab8
As any Clinton backer will tell you, disclosing the existence of the emails violated the usual Justice Department protocols about disclosing details of investigations so close to an election. But what if Clinton won the election — as the vast majority of us wrongly assumed she would — and it came out that the FBI had discovered the emails and didn’t say anything about them? It risked looking like a coverup, especially given that Comey had angered Republicans just a few months prior by making a very public spectacle of not recommending criminal charges for Clinton in the email probe. And imagine further if Comey didn’t say anything and then something significant came out of those emails (which it ultimately didn’t, as Comey announced just a few days before the election).

That whole thing was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation and it probably cost Hillary the election. Today the FBI the is still under a microscope and I think they will be going by the book on everything. With Trump announcing that he might try to block their findings and with there being a so called one week window, I wonder if we will see some sort of announcement from them soon or will they wait after the midterms? My gut feeling is that they aren’t done investigating and won’t be for some time, as in after the midterms. I also think the Dems will regain enough seats that they could press for impeachment whether the FBI makes anymore announcements or not before the midterms.


This time it is a little different though. The FBI announced they were looking into new emails in their Hillary Investigation right before the Presidential election she was in and that broke protocol. This time Trump isn’t up for reelection. He won’t be up for reelection for a couple of years. The FBI releasing news about their investigation into him now won’t be affecting his election in any way. Not sure how the FBI thinks about it but, it is noteworthy.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 pm

Investigations of Manafort in New York Are Beyond Trump’s Power to Pardon
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/busi ... vance.html

Although it is not known whether Mr. Manafort will receive or even request a presidential pardon, he also faces scrutiny from authorities in New York whose prosecutions would not be subject to one.

Cyrus R. Vance, Jr., the Manhattan district attorney, and Eric T. Schneiderman, the New York state attorney general, have been pursuing their own investigations into Mr. Manafort, a former campaign chairman to Mr. Trump. Although those investigations are unfolding separately from the federal case that the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, filed against Mr. Manafort, the New York authorities are examining some of the same activity highlighted in the federal indictment, underscoring the relevance of their exemption from a potential pardon.

A Lone Holdout Juror Actually Made It More Likely That Paul Manafort Will Go to Jail Even if Trump Pardons Him
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... juror.html
Last November, I explained how Mueller’s team seemed to be strategizing a way to outmaneuver Trump’s pardons when they initially brought charges against Manafort. Prosecutors appeared to be holding back some charges for states to bring, just in case Trump pardoned Manafort. Presidential pardons only address federal crimes, which means Manafort could face state charges for the same acts.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:45 pm

Film Review: ‘Active Measures’
A follow-the-money documentary traces the corrupt connection between Donald Trump and Russia, which the movie fills in with timely acuity.
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/acti ... 202915093/

Russia’s preeminent crime boss, a human grizzly bear named Semion Mogilevich, is said to be worth $10 billion, and he was the first Russian to figure out how to launder money on a mass scale. That meant interfacing with the West. Trump Tower, which opened in 1983, was one of the first buildings in New York where shell companies could buy and sell condos without identifying themselves, and it became what Craig Unger of Vanity Fair, in the movie, calls “a money-laundering paradise.” Russian mobsters, such as David Bogatin, began to deal with Trump the year after Trump Tower opened. A little later, the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City was supposed to become Trump’s flagship, but it was a famous debacle that left him in ruins. Apart from its failure as a business, it was charged with violating money-laundering statutes.

Trump, famously, was up to his eyeballs in debt, and since he’d filed for bankruptcy half a dozen times, American banks wanted nothing to do with him. All those loans had been his financial Viagra; now they’d dried up. But that’s what made him the perfect mark for the Russians. According to the movie, Trump would never have found his way back had it not been for the flow of cash from the Russian underworld.

There are now 30 Trump Towers all over the world, and added together, they contain thousands of condominiums owned by shell companies. According to Unger, a $5 million condo could change hands three or four times a year and — voilà! — you’ve laundered $20 million. That, in essence, is Trump’s business. Not to mention characters like the Russian oligarch Dimitry Rybolovlev, who bought a property from Trump for $95 million, not long after the 2008 real-estate crash, and never pretended to use it. It was a favor — a way of infusing cash into Trump’s pockets.

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