Mueller/Russia investigation

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Cap
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Cap » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:45 pm

The ultimate test of IOKIYAR.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:22 pm

I have watch Active Measures twice now. They went over so many things and so many names and tied it all together. Trumps entire election team was pocked because of theor deep ties to Russia and all of them pro Russia. I was so upset after watching it that I couldn’t sleep. Russia is at war with America and they aren’t using tanks. They are using our media and their puppet Trump to destroy America and they are winning. Putin must be giddy. Trump IMO is the biggest traitor in US history by far. He might as well be Putin in disguise.

Don’t take my word for it. Watch it.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:31 am

How many GOP congress people spent 4th of July in Russia this year? Manafort isn't new to the GOP, and it isn't like Trump was his only 'client.' Russia has so much money (there are several estimates that puts Putin as the richest man in the world due to stealing it all from his own people), and they know how to spread it around the world because they have to launder it.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:34 am

It's really nuts if you start looking into the information about Trump's businesses. In the early 90s I think it was, he was way underwater on his business, had declared bankruptcy, wasn't doing well at all. And then these Russian and other foreign oligarchs started pumping tens of millions of dollars into his businesses, and suddenly he's doing great. They funded a bunch of his construction projects, things like hotels and casinos in random cities around the world. What's more, many of these projects would often get half-completed and then canceled and bulldozed. This is considered super fishy and a likely money laundering activity. Failed/canceled construction is a great way to launder money because there's a ton of random contractors who still get paid and lots of money can just kind of sink into the project and management costs even though nothing gets produced.

I think the heart of all the "Russia stuff" is just that Trump is deeply indebted to rich Russian oligarchs for saving his business and essentially single-handedly making him rich. So he feels deeply loyal and grateful to them, and he knows they could expose this and ruin him, so he won't rock the boat by challenging them politically. And then for the cherry on the sundae, they come to him in mid-2016 and offer to help disburse hacked dirt on his opponent, spread fake news online, and more? He couldn't say "yes" to that fast enough.

It's all right out in the open. His businesses are based on money laundering and Russian mob money, and his Presidential campaign was aided and abetted by foreign criminals and propaganda. He is not a legitimate President nor a legitimate billionaire/businessman. I think all of this will come to fruition in time and he'll get what's coming to him, but it may not be until 2021 when he's out of office.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:54 pm

The documentary points out that after the fall of the Soviet Union the oligarchs took over and started stealing all the money. Putin came to power and forced them under his control. They still raped their people but Putin became the Mob Boss so to speak. Putin is at the top of the food chain. He controls the oligarchs and the Russian Mob.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:43 am

New York has quickly become the 'biggest threat' to Trump
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... ork-2018-9
Several investigations taking place in New York are quickly becoming what experts describe as the biggest threat to President Donald Trump.
The US attorney for the Southern District of New York, the New York attorney general, and the Manhattan District Attorney's Office are all either investigating Trump, his businesses, or his business associates, or are contemplating such investigations.
So far, local, state, and federal officials in New York are looking into hush payments that Michael Cohen, Trump's former longtime lawyer, made on Trump's behalf; how the Trump Organization was involved in those payments; the operations of the Donald J. Trump Foundation; and whether Trump's business practices in New York violate the Constitution's emoluments clause

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 pm

Mueller's untangling all of that. Always follow the money.

In reality, all of that should've been done anyway and even moreso when he was running for President. The fact that there's really no vetting process for candidates is insane. A lot of things need to be looked at in this regard.

The irony is that if he hadn't run for President, no one would've cared to look at any of his financials. He'd be living his great life in a penthouse on 5th Ave and Mar-A-Lago, golfing on the weekends (he does that anyway but still), bangin' pornstars and paying them off, and not worrying about his empire being taken apart.

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Superbone
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:19 pm

ShelC wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 pm
Mueller's untangling all of that. Always follow the money.

In reality, all of that should've been done anyway and even moreso when he was running for President. The fact that there's really no vetting process for candidates is insane. A lot of things need to be looked at in this regard.

The irony is that if he hadn't run for President, no one would've cared to look at any of his financials. He'd be living his great life in a penthouse on 5th Ave and Mar-A-Lago, golfing on the weekends (he does that anyway but still), bangin' pornstars and paying them off, and not worrying about his empire being taken apart.
Big mistake on his part in the name of ego.
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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:35 pm

If he or any of his family members are indicted and convicted on state charges, they can't be pardoned can they? It's only good for federal charges?

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:46 am

Nodack wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:43 am
New York has quickly become the 'biggest threat' to Trump
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... ork-2018-9
Several investigations taking place in New York are quickly becoming what experts describe as the biggest threat to President Donald Trump.
The US attorney for the Southern District of New York, the New York attorney general, and the Manhattan District Attorney's Office are all either investigating Trump, his businesses, or his business associates, or are contemplating such investigations.
So far, local, state, and federal officials in New York are looking into hush payments that Michael Cohen, Trump's former longtime lawyer, made on Trump's behalf; how the Trump Organization was involved in those payments; the operations of the Donald J. Trump Foundation; and whether Trump's business practices in New York violate the Constitution's emoluments clause
I hope Zephyr Teachout wins the NY Attorney General election so she can go after Trump's businesses in that state. She has pledged to do everything she can to prosecute him if she's elected. I think ultimately that's where he will receive justice is in the state courts after he's no longer President.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:15 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:35 pm
If he or any of his family members are indicted and convicted on state charges, they can't be pardoned can they? It's only good for federal charges?
That is correct. I believe most states also have pardon options for governors, but unlikely NY would do that.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:23 am

I heard on a podcast that the GOP is talking about proposing a new law that would forbid the retrial in state court of anybody who is found innocent and/or pardoned of the same crime in a federal court. If they could pass that, it would cover Trump to pardon his friends without fear of state court getting them later.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:52 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:23 am
I heard on a podcast that the GOP is talking about proposing a new law that would forbid the retrial in state court of anybody who is found innocent and/or pardoned of the same crime in a federal court. If they could pass that, it would cover Trump to pardon his friends without fear of state court getting them later.
Weird. There probably aren't many crimes that would be the same. I mean, you have to cite the crime and statute, and clearly there is a different list of statutes for a state than a federal crime. "Tax evasion" would be federal tax evasion at the fed level, and state/local at the state level. I don't even know how you would draft such legislation, without it being vague enough to drive a tank through.

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Cap
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Cap » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:15 am

Indy wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:52 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:23 am
I heard on a podcast that the GOP is talking about proposing a new law that would forbid the retrial in state court of anybody who is found innocent and/or pardoned of the same crime in a federal court. If they could pass that, it would cover Trump to pardon his friends without fear of state court getting them later.
Weird. There probably aren't many crimes that would be the same. I mean, you have to cite the crime and statute, and clearly there is a different list of statutes for a state than a federal crime. "Tax evasion" would be federal tax evasion at the fed level, and state/local at the state level. I don't even know how you would draft such legislation, without it being vague enough to drive a tank through.
Let’s hear it for the GOP and States’ Rights!
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Here's a bit more about it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... from_dual/

I haven't had the time to read up in detail or seek out good media sources on it yet.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:23 am

I'm still waiting to see how this FBI investigation turns out. My guess is that one week, especially with a Presidential order not to talk to lots of important people or about lots of important subjects, doesn't lead to much result. Then what? Do they vote? And do the on-the-fence senators such as Flake, Collins, Murkowski vote Yes despite not having gotten any answers? Will they support such a process?

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:00 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:23 am
I'm still waiting to see how this FBI investigation turns out. My guess is that one week, especially with a Presidential order not to talk to lots of important people or about lots of important subjects, doesn't lead to much result. Then what? Do they vote? And do the on-the-fence senators such as Flake, Collins, Murkowski vote Yes despite not having gotten any answers? Will they support such a process?
Flake--finishing out his term to move into consulting contracts worth millions. He isn't going to upset the GOP based firms that will pay him.

Murkowski--In a state as red as Alabama. I can't see her bucking the trend.

Collins--I think she is the only wildcard. But it doesn't matter if she votes for or against. If she votes against, it is 50-50, and Pence votes to confirm.

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ShelC
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:39 am

Flake looks the hero already because he made the investigation happen. If there's no "smoking gun", he'll vote to confirm and not get any flack for it.

A lot more questions than answers tho regarding Kavanaugh and his character and temperament. If the Dems take things over after midterms, can they impeach a Supreme Court Justice?

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am

ShelC wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:39 am
Flake looks the hero already because he made the investigation happen. If there's no "smoking gun", he'll vote to confirm and not get any flack for it.

A lot more questions than answers tho regarding Kavanaugh and his character and temperament. If the Dems take things over after midterms, can they impeach a Supreme Court Justice?
Yes. same rules as for president. happened once before, but was then acquitted by the senate. You would need +50% of the house, then 2/3rds of the senate. So I find it highly unlikely to happen, even if it was proved he lied under oath, or even tried to rape Ford.

Remember that right now, 18% of the senate represents ~50% of the population. That means 9 states have to go against the other 41 states to get an equal say. Senators from states with low populations have much more power per voter than states with higher populations. The balance of power in congress really needs to be flipped, with the House of Representatives being the higher authority, and the Senate the lower. The entire structure was built to cow tow to slave owners. We should have fixed that in the 1860s.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am

I just don't know if some of these problems can be fixed. Large low-population red states are always going to have outsized influence due to the nature of the Senate and electoral college. We can't change these things without a super-majority that would of course be voted against by those same states and congressmen.

I think even if they found out Kavanaugh "did it" or did other such bad things, the Republicans still wouldn't vote to impeach him. That's the state we're in right now.

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