Mueller/Russia investigation

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Indy
Posts: 8810
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:19 am

I thought they were just talking about orphans and adoptions.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:36 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:43 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 pm
Idk, maybe they never did anything wrong.
Do you follow the news? Trump Tower meeting? They may not get indicted, but Jared and Don Jr were present at the meeting where the Trump campaign and Russia agreed to collude. They did something wrong.
Yes, I followed the story. Are you presuming guilt until proven innocent? I thought it was the other way around. I don't have anything to do with the investigation, so I'll have to wait and see.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:30 am

Your message wasn't about guilt or innocence in the legal sense. You questioned whether they "never did anything wrong." Whether or not Mueller can prove that they committed a crime, it is deeply "wrong" to meet with Russian government agents to discuss stolen emails and interfering in an election. And that isn't speculation; we know that's what they talked about due to evidence and testimony from the various court cases and indictments. That's quite "wrong" of them to do that.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14951
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:58 am

In2ition wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 pm
Idk, maybe they never did anything wrong.
:lol: Oh, my naive friend.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:34 am

Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:58 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 pm
Idk, maybe they never did anything wrong.
:lol: Oh, my naive friend.
One of my weaknesses. :oops:
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14951
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:55 am

In2ition wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:34 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:58 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 pm
Idk, maybe they never did anything wrong.
:lol: Oh, my naive friend.
One of my weaknesses. :oops:
:) That's alright. I'm Mr. Optimist as well. I've been following this thing pretty closely for a long time. I don't know about Kushner but Jr. for sure has done some wrong things. The severity and whether they're punishable is the question.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4831
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:09 am

They're all guilty of tax evasion, money laundering and have major ethics/conflicts of interests with their businesses. I'm willing to bet they're all under sealed indictment and there will be charges at the state level that won't be pardonable. Of course, that's not collusion.

I'm more curious as to how far Mueller went in terms of other nations being involved- not just Russia, but Saudi Arabia and Israel as well. There are major sensitivities there which the Pols will use as a reason to either not release the full report or redact/withhold a big portion of it.

One guy i check on twitter is Seth Abramson, an investigative journalist/lawyer who's written two books on all of this and seems to have nailed the major details, players, charges, etc He goes way in depth and it's a lot but crazy to read once you go down the wormhole. One point he made that stuck with me is that Mueller's probably been done with the 2016 Election stuff, but has been playing catch up/keep up with all the supposed illegal acts after the election.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 5929
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Cap » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:24 am

Can state charges come out of a federal investigation? Wouldn’t New York (I assume) have to do its own investigation?
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 8810
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:33 am

Cap wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:24 am
Can state charges come out of a federal investigation? Wouldn’t New York (I assume) have to do its own investigation?
Yes, but as I understand it, it could simply be reviewing the evidence provided to them and determining it to be worthy of charges/prosecution. You are not required to start from scratch.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:56 pm

In2ition wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 pm
Idk, maybe they never did anything wrong.
Maybe. There is always that chance. I personally don’t believe it for a second. I have spent the past two years reading everything I can about it including news articles, books, documentaries and witnessed Trumps actions. Nothing I read points to Trump being innocent. I know Trump and Magabillies will say every article from all news sources are fake, including documentaries. They will say the FBI, DOJ and the Intelligence Community is filled with crimminal Democrats on the take who have targeted Trump because they are biased and work for Russia. I don’t believe any of this BS. Trump and every single member of his election team have lied over and over again and been busted for it. Trump has lied over 8000 times. I don’t believe anything this man says. He almost NEVER tells the truth about anything.

Even without any Russia collusion he has been the biggest threat to our country posed by any President I can remember. Taking Putins side over your own over and over is unconscionable. Putting people in charge of agencies they have no business leading such as the EPA is unconscionable. Calling the media the enemy of the people is evil and dangerous and certainly not Presidential. I won’t go on and on. I consider Trump pure evil and hope Karma catches up to him.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:35 pm

Mueller's team filed a 25-page sentencing memo for Paul Manafort late Friday night. The memo was accompanied by 800+ pages of supporting documents, references, and appendices. The memo basically says that Manafort is an unrepentent criminal and all but recommends a maximum prison sentence for his violating the terms of his cooperation deal. And now the state of New York is preparing separate charges against Manafort, partly to hedge in case Trump tries to pardon him at the federal level. We'll see where that goes.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:44 am

The day before Michael Cohen is to testify before Congress, GOP Congressman Matt Gaetz threatens him on Twitter. This is textbook witness tampering, as many, many lawyers have attested today. Incredible. The lengths these guys will go to to defend this President.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... en-1189581

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:49 am

Crazy
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:01 am

Anybody else watching this Michael Cohen hearing? It's nuts.

User avatar
carey
Posts: 10765
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by carey » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Anybody else watching this Michael Cohen hearing? It's nuts.
I caught bits and pieces. I thought AOC comported herself well. Not shocked that Republicans punted on the whole thing basically in regards to finding out what Trump was really up to.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4831
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:14 pm

Followed on social media...nothing surprises me at this point and Cohen was always a key person in any attempt to get to Trump. I saw AOC getting some props for asking good questions rather than grandstanding. I believe it all from Cohen and I'm sure Mueller has everything and then some from him.

None of the Rs will go against Trump publicly and those who back him think this is just a setup by the Dems.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:10 pm

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5 ... mp-history

The Watergate affair turned conservative skeptics of Richard Nixon into hardcore supporters, drawing out the immediate crisis and deepening divisions in the long term. Conservatives at the time refashioned the scandal into a tale of Democratic hypocrisy and media hostility — a narrative that many Republicans have adopted once again to explain away the emerging Trump scandals.

In perhaps the boldest stroke of all, when the evidence of Nixon’s wrongdoing became undeniable, the right attributed the president’s crimes to the growing institutional power of the presidency — making Watergate, in a sense, a “liberal” scandal after all.

Until the very end, Watergate gave Nixon a stature on the right that he had previously lacked. And even after Nixon’s resignation, the right never quite accepted the liberal narrative of the impeachment as a heroic moment for investigative journalism and a cleansing moment for American politics. All of which suggests that, at least for now, the Comey firing could help Trump consolidate his support among conservatives and Republicans, the very people who have the power to hold him accountable.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4831
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by ShelC » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:22 am

Good article, thanks for posting. I've read before that the GOP hasn't really gotten over the Nixon impeachment and they're still looking for retribution. Looking back, you had 2 Republican Presidents in the 80s serving 3 terms, and once Clinton came on in the 90s, the Rs (led by Gingrich) went after him full force to try for impeachment and planted the seeds for this kind of hyper partisanship we have today.

Reading about Manion and Lyons was interesting too. No different than today in terms of defending the President and attacking the media, they just didn't have as big of an outlet or reach. John Dean said recently that if Fox News were around during Watergate, Nixon wouldn't have been impeached.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:31 pm

An article that plays out the different scenarios when Mueller releases his report.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... disclosure

Justice Department regulations call for a special counsel to provide a final report to the attorney general, who decides what to tell Congress and make public.


Barr has indicated he’s likely to send his own summary of the findings to Congress, rather than Mueller’s actual report.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:35 am

I think that the most frightening outcome of all is if Mueller releases a report, finds essentially clear evidence of collusion, and we just don't care and don't do anything about it. I mean, sure, the Democrats could raise a call for impeachment, but they might just decide to let it be decided by the 2020 election. I think that would be a grave mistake. Even if the Senate Republicans won't vote to remove Trump in an impeachment hearing, you have to go through that process and get people on the stand and make the American people see what a crook they elected. You have to do it.

Post Reply