Mueller/Russia investigation

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am

I thought this was interesting, hopefully you all enjoy it.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:23 am

NYT, WaPo, NBC, and others are all reporting that anonymous sources out of the Mueller team are saying that Barr mischaracterized (lied) about the contents of the Mueller report in his 4-page summary and that the actual report was significantly more negative/damaging about the President. This could get interesting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/us/p ... eport.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/03/politics ... index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/04/some-mu ... stice.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... rr-n990871

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 am

I think it would be unfair (and not provable) to say he lied. He didn't really say much of anything. And if the DOJ policy still holds true where they will not indict a sitting president, Mueller's report is likely full of lots of facts, but no conclusions. You let the facts fall where they may. Everyone knows there is no way 2/3 of the Senate will vote to convict him, even if he did shoot someone on 5th avenue. The current GOP in power care more about keeping the power than rule of law, or supporting sex offenders, or even child molesters. They close ranks and support their team.

The details will come out, and we will say how clear the evidence is that Trump and people around him are criminals. But nothing will come of it if he is still in office. Just my 2 cents.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:44 am

Another take on the subject, from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/victorlipm ... a6d2a52e78

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:47 am

Indy wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 am
I think it would be unfair (and not provable) to say he lied. He didn't really say much of anything. And if the DOJ policy still holds true where they will not indict a sitting president, Mueller's report is likely full of lots of facts, but no conclusions. You let the facts fall where they may. Everyone knows there is no way 2/3 of the Senate will vote to convict him, even if he did shoot someone on 5th avenue. The current GOP in power care more about keeping the power than rule of law, or supporting sex offenders, or even child molesters. They close ranks and support their team.
I don't know how else to describe it other than "lied," if you look at a large report full of facts that are critical of the President and full of wrongdoing and summarize it as an exoneration of the President. "Misrepresented?" I think the important thing here is intent. It isn't as if Barr has innocently made a mistake based on incomplete information or some innocuous misunderstanding. He knows what is in that report and has deliberately misled the American people for weeks about its overall findings and nature. I think if the report comes out and is substantially different than Barr characterized it, they should call on Barr to resign.
Indy wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 am
The details will come out, and we will say how clear the evidence is that Trump and people around him are criminals. But nothing will come of it if he is still in office. Just my 2 cents.
I do agree with you on that. Nothing matters any more and every further criminal act that is revealed just falls by the wayside 24 hours later. The only fix is to vote them out in 2020. I don't know if there has ever been a more critical election in our nation's history.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:01 am

Did you read Barr's summary? It specifically quotes Mueller's report to say it does NOT exonerate him.
The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

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Superbone
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Superbone » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Indy wrote:Did you read Barr's summary? It specifically quotes Mueller's report to say it does NOT exonerate him.
The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
Which Trump promptly interpreted as “total exoneration.”
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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:21 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:32 pm
Indy wrote:Did you read Barr's summary? It specifically quotes Mueller's report to say it does NOT exonerate him.
The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
Which Trump promptly interpreted as “total exoneration.”
Right. Well, I doubt he actually read the report. Probably just talked to Barr, Barr repeated his line he quoted, and he went with his interpretation. It also fits that he knew about it for the full 3 weeks that Mueller gave notice to Barr the report was coming--remember he started talking to the press again and would do so by repeating "No collusion. No collusion." before anyone asked a question. So weird.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:36 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:32 pm
Indy wrote:Did you read Barr's summary? It specifically quotes Mueller's report to say it does NOT exonerate him.
The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
Which Trump promptly interpreted as “total exoneration.”
That’s just Trump. Every time there is any news about anything he has claimed it total exonerated him.

I am withholding judgement until I see the report. Barr is Trumps hand picked guy to replace the guy he fired for not being loyal enough to Trump so, I expect Barr’s Cliff Notes to lean pro Trump. The Democrats version will be anti Trump. The Truth will probably be in the middle like always.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:20 am

Now Barr is railing against the FBI, claiming that they conducted "spying" on the Trump campaign. The attorney general is outing himself as a clear partisan shill.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... gn-1266531

Lawfare offers a good take on this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/bill-barrs-low-moment

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:04 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:20 am
Now Barr is railing against the FBI, claiming that they conducted "spying" on the Trump campaign. The attorney general is outing himself as a clear partisan shill.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... gn-1266531

Lawfare offers a good take on this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/bill-barrs-low-moment
During the testimony, once pushed, didn't he indicate that it wasn't spying, and wasn't the FBI, but that what he meant is that some agencies might have over-used the FISA process?

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In2ition
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by In2ition » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:10 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:20 am
Now Barr is railing against the FBI, claiming that they conducted "spying" on the Trump campaign. The attorney general is outing himself as a clear partisan shill.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... gn-1266531

Lawfare offers a good take on this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/bill-barrs-low-moment
Idk if he should have said it. He should been a little more discreet and not give that information. A lot is public record at this point, but I do agree with most of Lawfare's takes on this.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 am

So the (redacted) Mueller Report has come out today. I'm trying to learn/read more about what it says. So far it sounds like Barr was perhaps not fully accurate and complete in his 4-page summary and press conference about the report, but I hesitate to say more until I understand it more completely. Feel free to post stories or quotes if you find interesting ones. More soon.

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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:21 pm

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... bstruction
“With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice,” Mueller wrote in his more than 400-page report.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ng-mueller
White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders acknowledged to investigators with special counsel Robert Mueller's team that she misled reporters when she insisted in May 2017 that "countless" FBI agents had lost confidence in former Director James Comey leading up to his dismissal.

The special counsel's report, released Thursday, cited Sanders’s multiple false statements to reporters as part of its review of whether President Trump obstructed justice in firing Comey. Sanders told investigators that her misstatements were a "slip of the tongue,” and that the claims were not founded on anything.

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurit ... ours-after
Russian military officers targeted former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton with hacking attempts within hours of then-candidate Donald Trump suggesting Moscow should find Clinton’s emails, according to special counsel Robert Mueller’s report released Thursday.

“Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,” the report reads, referring to Russia's military intelligence agency.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... mning-than
John Dean, the former White House counsel for President Nixon, said Thursday that special counsel Robert Mueller's report was "more damning" than the Watergate report.

“I looked on my shelf for the Senate Watergate Committee report, I looked at the Iran Contra report. I also looked at the Ken Starr report,” Dean said on CNN’s “The Lead.”

“In 400 words, this report from the special counsel is more damning than all those reports about a President, this is really a devastating report.”




Mr Trump reportedly used an expletive when the investigation was announced, adding: "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency"

Mr Mueller examined 10 actions by the president in regards to obstruction of justice, which he said largely "took place in public view"

The report says that potential obstruction of justice by the president only failed because members of his administration, including former FBI Director James Comey, refused to "carry out orders"

Investigators viewed the president's written responses to their questions as "inadequate" but chose not to pursue a potentially lengthy legal battle to interview him

Mr Trump dictated a misleading response as to what the June 2016 meeting between Russian intermediaries and Trump campaign officials in Trump Tower was about - this had earlier been denied by Mr Trump's lawyer and White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders

The special counsel considered charging the president's son, Donald Trump Jr, and son-in-law Jared Kushner but did not think they could meet the Department of Justice's burden of proof that they wilfully broke the law


https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... o-criminal
f we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment,” the report states.

“The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him,” it states.
Last edited by Nodack on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:43 pm

And this is the information that's unreacted.

Also, how little dignity does one need to be a Trump stooge? Looking at you William Barr, the coward who has disgraced the justice department of his nation.
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Nodack
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Nodack » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:50 pm

We keep pulling apart from each other as a country and that worries me. I wonder when and if it will ever get better. My best friend the Trump fan and I had lunch the other day and he genuinely tried to engage me in a real dialogue about politics, which was refreshing.

Bernie Sanders was brave and did a town hall on FOX. He sort of won over the crowd and that really upset Trump. How dare a Dem come on his turf and score points. Bill Maher has been criticizing Democrats for refusing to go on FOX News. Bernie finally did it and scored points on the other side and now more Dems are going on FOX News. Not sure where FOX is going with this. They could use it to ambush the Dems but, apparently they didn’t with Bernie. Are they trying to win over more Dem viewers or is is an anomaly or a trap? Stay tuned.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:17 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:43 pm
And this is the information that's unreacted.

Also, how little dignity does one need to be a Trump stooge? Looking at you William Barr, the coward who has disgraced the justice department of his nation.
This isn't the first time Barr has been a stooge and lied to "protect" an administration from the crimes they committed. Or the 2nd.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:06 am

Based on what I've read of the Mueller Report, the Dems need to launch an impeachment process immediately. This corrupt man cannot be allowed to do what he's done with no consequences.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:06 am
Based on what I've read of the Mueller Report, the Dems need to launch an impeachment process immediately. This corrupt man cannot be allowed to do what he's done with no consequences.
There have been no consequences his entire life. Just saying.

But unless you have over half of the GOP senators willing to impeach him, it won't happen. You can't even get half of the GOP senators to agree that we shouldn't be supporting a war in Yemen.

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Indy
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Re: Mueller/Russia investigation

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:05 pm

And does anyone else see a real possibility of him being re-elected? Unfortunately, it feels pretty real right now.

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