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It passed the Senate, 51-49. Bob Corker of TN was the sole "no" vote from the GOP side.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... ans-274453

Hard to tell about the tax thing. What it does, who it helps/hurts depends on who you talk to. One side says it will save us a trillion dollars. The other side says it will add a trillion to the debt and hurt the poor while helping the rich. As usual propaganda rules the day.

My take generally speaking is that taxes is how we pay our bills. Having a massive debt and lowering taxes seems like a great way to balloon the debt even more. I don’t buy the trickle down BS. Republicans screamed at the top of their lungs over and over about the debt while Obama was President. They were willing to shut down the government, lower our credit rating to make their pont. Now that they assumed control, not a peep about the deficit.

Since I can remember even noticing politics, I have noticed that the platform for every single Republican year after year is lowering taxes. It doesn’t matter what the current tax rate is or what the economy is doing. If eleceted they all promise to lower taxes. I get that nobody likes paying taxes. I certainly don’t enjoy it but, I know that the country cannot function without it.

It’s like complaining about you wife buying stupid stuff on the card while you go out and buy a bunch of guy stuff on the card and then instead of paying it off together you decide to fight over the bill, only pay the minimum and blame the spouse for running up the bill. It’s stupid and insane and that’s what we keep doing in the US.

We are stupid.

That's a great analogy.

Our government system is like having a married couple who hate each other, and the common citizen is a child caught in the middle of their bullshit.

Nodack wrote:Hard to tell about the tax thing. What it does, who it helps/hurts depends on who you talk to. One side says it will save us a trillion dollars. The other side says it will add a trillion to the debt and hurt the poor while helping the rich. As usual propaganda rules the day.

Don't listen to either "side." Listen to the independent experts.

Of course, the independent experts tend to agree with one "side," because only one side listens to the independent experts.

There is no sound financial or economic data or logic that would suggest that the current tax plan would lead to trillions of dollars in economic growth or increased revenue. The Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, promised to produce such data, and he has not done so. This is because there is no such data.

Hasn't it already been proven to add $1 trillion to our national debt?

Superbone wrote:Hasn't it already been proven to add $1 trillion to our national debt?

Yes, by the CTO and multiple non-partisan expert groups. But the GOP just says "fake news" and points out that some random member of each group once had lunch with a Clinton or something, and they claim therefore the entire groups are biased. Standard fare.

It looks like they're passing the tax bill today. The House already voted to approve it; Senate soon.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... tes-304908

Looks like it is so poorly written it couldn't pass the Senate as is. Surprise.

This kind of stuff disgusts me. It's a direct result of the absurd lack of campaign finance regulations.

Our country is bought and paid for by special interests groups who have no interest in seeing the average American prosper.

Flagrant Fowl wrote:This kind of stuff disgusts me. It's a direct result of the absurd lack of campaign finance regulations.

Our country is bought and paid for by special interests groups who have no interest in seeing the average American prosper.

This is funny and sad. With your statement I would have no idea what your political allegiance runs, but I agree with it none the less.

In2ition wrote:

Flagrant Fowl wrote:This kind of stuff disgusts me. It's a direct result of the absurd lack of campaign finance regulations.

Our country is bought and paid for by special interests groups who have no interest in seeing the average American prosper.

This is funny and sad. With your statement I would have no idea what your political allegiance runs, but I agree with it none the less.

My allegiance is to equality, progress, and most importantly, humanity.

I have no political allegiance. I couldn't care less what color tie a person wears if they act in everyones interest to the best of their ability.

For the record, I don't have major issues with capitalism. The free market system is great if it's open and fair for both the supplier and the consumer, but that's not what we have in America right now.

The Citizens United decision really set our country back. It allows essentially unlimited bribery of our politicians by special interest groups. A disaster.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The Citizens United decision really set our country back. It allows essentially unlimited bribery of our politicians by special interest groups. A disaster.

I think this is the biggest failure in our country during my lifetime.

So sad.

The US credit card is maxed out and we keep raising our debt limit. We barely pay the minimum payment every month and the GOP just decided to lower our minimum monthly payment and raise the debt by 1.5 trillion to MAGA.

Nodack wrote:So sad.

The US credit card is maxed out and we keep raising our debt limit. We barely pay the minimum payment every month and the GOP just decided to lower our minimum monthly payment and raise the debt by 1.5 trillion to MAGA.

Exactly. I realize that the GOP is supposed to be the fiscally responsible party, but in my lifetime, I think every time the GOP is in office, our debt goes up, and up, and up. Reagan was the 2nd highest change in debt as % of GDP and he is considered to be a good president fiscally.

EDIT--Just found this.

When the stock market has been making such huge growths for the past 8 years, we need to be paying off our debts, not giving breaks. Make hay while the sun shines.

I heard the GOP tax plan described as looting the US treasury, and I think that's accurate. They are taking advantage of a period of relative economic strength, brought on by 8 years of reasonable fiscal governance by Obama, and just giving away all of it to rich people and corporations. It's reprehensible.