Florida school shooting

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:43 am

The obvious solution is, give every student an AR-15. Problem solved. #NRA

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Indy
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Indy » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:22 am

carey wrote:Did you know that after Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired "just in case" a school shooting happened? They haven't stopped a single school shooting but they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. There was an armed guard at Parkland. He failed too.
Not only did he fail, he didn't even bother to try. Pretty crazy to read about that.

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Indy
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Indy » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:33 am

I read a great response yesterday with all of this talk about arming teachers.

Chris Kyle was the most decorated sniper in american history. And even he couldn't stop a guy with a pistol from killing him.

A dude with a pistol murdered 13 people and injured another 30 at Fort Hood Army base. Hard to argue about how well trained those around him were. And he chose to only attack soldiers, leaving most of the civilians alone.

Lack of firearms or even firearms training clearly isn't the issue.

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Nodack
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Nodack » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:24 am

“Not only did he fail, he didn't even bother to try. Pretty crazy to read about that.”

Wisely he retired right after that and will have to live with himself for the rest of his life. I have always wondered what I would do in a situation like that. Would I be brave and charge in or would I play it safe? I play a lot of video games like World of Tanks and in those I tend to be a little more aggressive than most people who hide in the back afraid to engage the hostile enemy. Then again it’s a video game and I can die over and over with no repercussions. In real life it’s permanent.

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Indy
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Indy » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:47 pm

Nodack wrote:“Not only did he fail, he didn't even bother to try. Pretty crazy to read about that.”

Wisely he retired right after that and will have to live with himself for the rest of his life. I have always wondered what I would do in a situation like that. Would I be brave and charge in or would I play it safe? I play a lot of video games like World of Tanks and in those I tend to be a little more aggressive than most people who hide in the back afraid to engage the hostile enemy. Then again it’s a video game and I can die over and over with no repercussions. In real life it’s permanent.
I read he was already eligible for retirement, too. So I even question how capable he would have been. I mean, a glock 17 against an AR-15 isn't really a fair fight to begin with. And then a retiree school resource officer versus a 19 year old...

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Nodack
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:45 pm

I would think he would be brave enough to at least engage the guy a little and distract him from what he was doing. Fire off a shot or two from a safe position and then take cover. He should have the element of surprise. The shooter is announcing his position with all his firing. You only have to keep him busy a few minutes to save a lot of lives and maybe even catch him from behind and finish it.

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Nodack
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:50 pm

The backlash from this shooting has been the biggest I have seen with the students, NRA, media and the several corporate sponsors that have pulled support from the NRA. Trump is as wishy washy in his stance as usual and that doesn't help the NRA. Even some GOP members have signaled a willingness to look into bump stocks and additional mental health screening. We will see if the movement lasts and actually accomplishes anything.

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carey
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by carey » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:14 pm

The fight is on. I'm not sure what is different this time but it does feel different. Maybe that it hit socially aware teens that will soon be voting age.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:33 pm

I am appreciating that people are staying upset and engaged about this one. I love how active the teens are being. I like how people are putting pressure on companies to drop special perks and relationships with the NRA. I like that the NRA's response to all of this is making it quite clear that they are an extremist organization. Seriously, watch this ad video of theirs and tell me this is a moderate organization that represents views of the majority of gun owners:

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Superbone
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Superbone » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:08 pm

They use their models to promote their ridiculous agenda.
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Cap
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Cap » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:03 pm

carey wrote:The fight is on. I'm not sure what is different this time but it does feel different. Maybe that it hit socially aware teens that will soon be voting age.
What’s different is that there’s a GOP POTUS advocating gun regulations. While I have no particular opinion on the merit of his proposal to ban bump stocks, the fact that a GOP Pres is talking about gun regulation at all feels meaningful.
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carey
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by carey » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:48 pm

Cap wrote:
carey wrote:The fight is on. I'm not sure what is different this time but it does feel different. Maybe that it hit socially aware teens that will soon be voting age.
What’s different is that there’s a GOP POTUS advocating gun regulations. While I have no particular opinion on the merit of his proposal to ban bump stocks, the fact that a GOP Pres is talking about gun regulation at all feels meaningful.
I suppose. But lets be clear that banning bump stocks is the absolute bare minimum that can be done. It's an accessory. An integral one to converting the AR-15 into a militarized weapon (along with the magazine) but an accessory nonetheless. We should also note that Trump has said one thing publicly and the opposite privately about a dozen things since elected so this means f*** all to me.
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ShelC
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by ShelC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:40 am

I had read an article that Trump was pretty affected after seeing photos of the school and seeing the kids in the hospital. He was amazed at the damage and the wounds the ar-15 caused.
They compared it to when he saw the children who were gassed in Syria and decided to do something. Could've been a fluff piece to make him look human, but he did come out and say the age should be raised to 21 (I don't think that does much, personally) and they should ban bump stocks. Maybe he'll back off when things cool down, who knows. Either way, we won't see a ban on assault rifles anytime soon.

What's crazy is that in 2000, they have video of LaPierre adamantly stating that schools should be gun-free zones. I believe that same year, Trump gave an interview that there should be a ban on assault rifles. Things have gotten worse these past 18 years, yet they've gone to the opposite extreme that we need more guns, especially in schools and we can't possibly ban these weapons.

So this just came out:

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/968826402068942848


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Indy
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Indy » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:58 am

Good move.

Also, the GOP has already backtracked on the 21 year old limit (which I agree doesn't do much anyway).

I think I have made my stance clear before, but I do not support raising the age of gun purchases to 21 (just like I don't support the alcohol age being 21). I do fully support a comprehensive back ground check and registration requirement for all firearm purchases, and revocation of those firearms for any violent crime conviction (including misdemeanor domestic violence offenses).

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Cap
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Cap » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 pm

"I like taking guns away early," Trump said. "Take the guns first, go through due process second."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 381145002/

Wow... Just imagine the backlash if a Democratic POTUS said anything like that. Or even a normal Republican.
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Nodack
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Nodack » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:44 pm

This is kind of a big thing. That sound bite by Trump will be used a lot in the future. It sounded like Trump was saying that if there is any kind of doubt about a persons mental health that they should take his guns first and sort out due process later. If true then I can say that after a year of hating Trumps every decision that I finally agree with him on something. If I agree with him on this then the NRA and most of his party will hate it.

As we all know Trump is a loose cannon and doesn’t really do what is expected of him at all times. He has kind of gone off the railings of his party before and they have managed to reign him back in. A GOP President taking on the NRA and gun rights and bucking the party line is a big thing. Die hard Trump supporters will agree with anything he says but, the other half of the GOP won’t like this at all.

My best guess is that Trump and his handlers will walk back that comment like they have done dozens of times before. Nobody defies the NRA and gets away with it. If Trump does split with his party and goes 100% for this then we are in for interesting times. Trump is so spiteful and vindictive. I would love to see Trump go ballistic on his own party. No pun intended.

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Cap
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Cap » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:00 pm

Nodack wrote:This is kind of a big thing. That sound bite by Trump will be used a lot in the future. It sounded like Trump was saying that if there is any kind of doubt about a persons mental health that they should take his guns first and sort out due process later. If true then I can say that after a year of hating Trumps every decision that I finally agree with him on something.
So how is that supposed to work? If law enforcement gets a credible tip that you're planning a shooting, or wacko, or whatever, they just show up at your house, force their way in, confiscate all the weapons they find, and worry about warrants and stuff later?
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Superbone
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Superbone » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:16 pm

Cap wrote:
Nodack wrote:This is kind of a big thing. That sound bite by Trump will be used a lot in the future. It sounded like Trump was saying that if there is any kind of doubt about a persons mental health that they should take his guns first and sort out due process later. If true then I can say that after a year of hating Trumps every decision that I finally agree with him on something.
So how is that supposed to work? If law enforcement gets a credible tip that you're planning a shooting, or wacko, or whatever, they just show up at your house, force their way in, confiscate all the weapons they find, and worry about warrants and stuff later?
Well, yeah, after they shoot him first.
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ShelC
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by ShelC » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:23 am

This clip is interesting and very telling. Trump says these guns are all coming from the black market and Feinstein corrects him and lets him know you can go to a regular store and buy them. He legitimately didn't know that. So he's either extremely ignorant or the Rs and people around him are lying to him about how accessible these guns are. Could definitely be both.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/968957403910823936

He's literally learning on the job. Also, maybe the best way to get him to agree is to use reverse psychology and tell him something can't get done. Chris Murphy is a Senator from CT and pretty much said the NRA won't allow any changes and that Trump "underestimates the power of the gun lobby". Trump's response was "They have great power over you people; they have less . . . over me. Some of you people are petrified of the NRA. You can’t be petrified. [People] want to do what’s right.” And if passing stricter gun laws makes him look good or even the 1st President to do anything, he'll get off on that. Another Trump quote: "I think it’s time that a president stepped up. I’m talking Democrat and Republican presidents, they’ve not stepped up.”

https://nypost.com/2018/02/28/trump-to- ... f-the-nra/

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Indy
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Re: Florida school shooting

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:49 am

I was happy to hear what he was saying yesterday. I really hope it continues and something gets done.

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